Tank "nerfs"

[unhandledexeption]

Forgot to add:
dont forget to tell to your DPS friends to always control their DPS:
-All DPS classes have dedicated skills for Aggro control (avoid use aggro randomizers, else 100% you screw up the tank)
-Exists dedicated Augmentation for reduce aggro called CHARM (active/trigger/critical) to reduce aggro additionally

I know many DPS players likes to pewpew and dont care for the aggro but aggro management (and the two things i just mentioned) makes the difference from "big numbers and getting wiped" vs a "slightly less big numbers and successful raid"

Sometimes i really wonder if you ever played L2... And BTW, the buffers have the aggro lowering skills, most of the damage dealers don't have...

[BRANDEN]

well drake could you at lest disable the toggle mana consumption on deflect arrow, and make it like holy armor and aegis Stance?
so at lest we wont have to toggle it on/off everytime we fight a mob using bow too.

[Chicks]

Sometimes i really wonder if you ever played L2... And BTW, the buffers have the aggro lowering skills, most of the damage dealers don't have...

I think he mean enchant to reduce aggression? I don't know every enchant of every skills, so maybe thats what he's been talking about. I think, at least all elf fighter got charm, but what about the others? I don't recall any on DE fighters, same for most mages (outside buffers/healers. I think bishop got 1 but for undead only no?)

EDIT : Confirmed that the only hate reducing skill available are for elfs. The rest is target canceling/switching (according to official). So thats stuff that freaks the tank up more than anything else.

Anyway considering the update it will be interesting to test aggression now, not that it change anything to the tattoo being useless (in term of aggression usefulness), but if aggression per say works well, maybe it can bypass that issue. I will try to test it on sunday when I get back home.

[unhandledexeption]

I don't understand why are these nerfs needed... if you want to modify the game, look at the archer balance where there are real problems:
-hawkeye have the highest attack speed, as it have "boost attack speed" passive (SR, PR, don't)
-hawkeye can have the same crit rate as the SR, and same crit power as the PR, as while SR have only "critical chance" passive, PR only have the "critical power", hawkeye have BOTH.
-hawkeye have the most HP and CP, and the most headroom for dye-ing.
-hawkeye have the highest weight limit cuz of it's passive skill (quiver of holding?!).
-hawkeye have two special skills (hawkeye, snipe), while PR only have dead eye, and SR have the PVE only rapid fire (it's useless in pvp, as it lowers the range to 500)
Yes it's retail, but still really unfair, and retail doesn't mean that it's good, see the newer retarded chronicles. While the nukers really have the balance.

Everyone who want archer, makes hawkeye. PR and SRs are mostly made, by subbing BD, or SWS to them.

[loXol]

-hawkeye have the highest attack speed,the same crit rate as the SR, and same crit power as the PR, while PR only have dead eye; PR mostly made, by subbing BD,

wow high lvl of l2 knowledge here....

[=drake=]

So did someone test the Aggro using tank skills + tattoo + augm?

[silent_death]

I don't understand why are these nerfs needed... if you want to modify the game, look at the archer balance where there are real problems:
-hawkeye have the highest attack speed, as it have "boost attack speed" passive (SR, PR, don't)
-hawkeye can have the same crit rate as the SR, and same crit power as the PR, as while SR have only "critical chance" passive, PR only have the "critical power", hawkeye have BOTH.
-hawkeye have the most HP and CP, and the most headroom for dye-ing.
-hawkeye have the highest weight limit cuz of it's passive skill (quiver of holding?!).
-hawkeye have two special skills (hawkeye, snipe), while PR only have dead eye, and SR have the PVE only rapid fire (it's useless in pvp, as it lowers the range to 500)
Yes it's retail, but still really unfair, and retail doesn't mean that it's good, see the newer retarded chronicles. While the nukers really have the balance.

Everyone who want archer, makes hawkeye. PR and SRs are mostly made, by subbing BD, or SWS to them.

TROLOLOLOL WTF DID I JUST READ

You never played on a high rate PvP server I'm guessing

[unhandledexeption]

wow high lvl of l2 knowledge here....

Yes there is. See? You couldn't disprove me (which is impossible of course, cuz i'm right as i talking about facts and not beliefs ).

TROLOLOLOL WTF DID I JUST READ

You never played on a high rate PvP server I'm guessing

Not much... i've mostly (mass)pvpd on low rates. But this isn't matter,  the passives aren't depend on rates... Perhaps you mixing up the chronicles? Maybe on newer chronicles the SR and PR really meets with the beliefs (SR has fastest atk speed, PR shoots the biggest), but not in interlude.

[silent_death]

Yes there is. See? You couldn't disprove me (which is impossible of course, cuz i'm right as i talking about facts and not beliefs ).

Not much... i've mostly (mass)pvpd on low rates. But this isn't matter,  the passives aren't depend on rates... Perhaps you mixing up the chronicles? Maybe on newer chronicles the SR and PR really meets with the beliefs (SR has fastest atk speed, PR shoots the biggest), but not in interlude.

Let me summarise for you (I've only ever played archer, in mostly archer clans).

PR - hardest hitter, overall end game highest damage output. very squishy, the glass cannon
SR - fastest hitter, highest crit rate, relatively low crit dmg/p,atk. best unbuffed run speed.
HE - highest damage mitigation due to extra con. Higher p.atk than SR, but lower in all other factors. The only thing it has going for it otehr than the CON is the Dash skill.

I don't know what you look for when playing an archer (and 90% of the people of this server, which actually makes me very happy), But tankiness isn't something I personally look for. I wanna drop some mofos, and I wanna drop em fast.

For your refernce, please visit the following page and study it carefully:

http://lineage.pmfun.com/list/stat

AND/or create an account on Drake's favourite L2html Zimbabwe x9000, study the stats carefully, and hit a few times to see the difference in dps (and most important, crit damage) output.

[unhandledexeption]

Let me summarise for you (I've only ever played archer, in mostly archer clans).

PR - hardest hitter, overall end game highest damage output. very squishy, the glass cannon
SR - fastest hitter, highest crit rate, relatively low crit dmg/p,atk. best unbuffed run speed.
HE - highest damage mitigation due to extra con. Higher p.atk than SR, but lower in all other factors. The only thing it has going for it otehr than the CON is the Dash skill.

I don't know what you look for when playing an archer (and 90% of the people of this server, which actually makes me very happy), But tankiness isn't something I personally look for. I wanna drop some mofos, and I wanna drop em fast.

For your refernce, please visit the following page and study it carefully:

http://lineage.pmfun.com/list/stat

AND/or create an account on Drake's favourite L2html Zimbabwe x9000, study the stats carefully, and hit a few times to see the difference in dps (and most important, crit damage) output.

Yes these are the false beliefs that i wrote about, when people only looking at the base stats.
You would be right if only the stats would decide, but you aren't, as there are things that called as  "passive skill"s have much higher effect than the stats.
That's why the HE is the fastest in attack speed (it's the only archer that have "Boost attack speed" passive, which makes them faster than the SR), and have the same crit rate as the SR ("critical chance" passive), and the same crit power as the PR ("critical power" passive).
PR only have higher damage, if the dead eye is on, else it will have nearly the same(negligible difference) as the hawkeye. SR only have higher atk speed if the rapid fire is on, but that 50% range penalty makes it useless in pvp.

SR vs HE skill differences (http://lineage.pmfun.com/?action=list&what=skillcompare&button=Show&c1=24&c2=9&hide=on&x=17&y=11)
PR vs HE (http://lineage.pmfun.com/?action=list&what=skillcompare&button=Show&c1=37&c2=9&hide=on&x=31&y=12)

And there is some nice calculators too, see here: http://l2calc.narod.ru (http://l2calc.narod.ru) (of try setting level to max 79, as the higher level skills are not exist in interlude)
How many selfbuffs a class have doesn't really matters, as an archer party usually moving in full buff, with WC, BP, SWS, BD, and for farming nearly everyone have a dualbox PP

[silent_death]

Yes these are the false beliefs that i wrote about, when people only looking at the base stats.
You would be right if only the stats would decide, but you aren't, as there are things that called as  "passive skill"s have much higher effect than the stats.
That's why the HE is the fastest in attack speed (it's the only archer that have "Boost attack speed" passive, which makes them faster than the SR), and have the same crit rate as the SR ("critical chance" passive), and the same crit power as the PR ("critical power" passive).
PR only have higher damage, if the dead eye is on, else it will have nearly the same(negligible difference) as the hawkeye. SR only have higher atk speed if the rapid fire is on, but that 50% range penalty makes it useless in pvp.

SR vs HE skill differences (http://lineage.pmfun.com/?action=list&what=skillcompare&button=Show&c1=24&c2=9&hide=on&x=17&y=11)
PR vs HE (http://lineage.pmfun.com/?action=list&what=skillcompare&button=Show&c1=37&c2=9&hide=on&x=31&y=12)

And there is some nice calculators too, see here: http://l2calc.narod.ru (http://l2calc.narod.ru) (of try setting level to max 79, as the higher level skills are not exist in interlude)
How many selfbuffs a class have doesn't really matters, as an archer party usually moving in full buff, with WC, BP, SWS, BD, and for farming nearly everyone have a dualbox PP

Believe what you want mate. I used to too. On paper those passives look very attractive, in reality they give a boost based on the BASE STATS, just cos it has them doesn't mean it makes the attack speed the fastest.

I told you, make the chars on a different server, full buff yourself, and test it out. I have.

That calculator (as any calculator would be) is useless for Archrs.

Why?

Because we rely on Crit damage and the alt+T stats do not show it.

[unhandledexeption]

Believe what you want mate. I used to too. On paper those passives look very attractive, in reality they give a boost based on the BASE STATS, just cos it has them doesn't mean it makes the attack speed the fastest.

I told you, make the chars on a different server, full buff yourself, and test it out. I have.

I beleive in facts, and what i've seen. I don't need now a char on high rate(BTW there is no interlude high rate for now) , and there is the calculator that tells how does it looks like. If the passives depend on base stats, that doesn't matters, as there is no big difference in dex, only in con. And there is 1 str difference between delf and human fighter(before using dyes).
If played years as hawkeye in c4 and IL, with my CP where the SR/sws and the PR/BD who played years with these, told the same as you can see from stats, passives, and the calculator. HE is the fastest in atk speed, have nearly equal crit rate as SR, same crit power as PR, and much higher HP than others. SR is better in only one thing, that have the highest standard running speed(due to a passive), however hawkeye have the dash, which make it faster for 10 seconds.
Anyway: HE have all of the important passives that SR and PR have, while SR and PR don't have all.

Crit damage is depends on patk+ crit power buffs+ crit power passives+ boss jewels (AQ+Baium). Hawkeye have the same crit power passive as the PR, SR doesn't have such passive, and they can have the same active buffs. It's not so complicated, it's easy to tell what can you expect ingame, even if it's not written out as a number.