spoil equals profits and i'm wondering what sub options would be good to do that full-time in-game...
i need some advice and evaluation of spoiler subs that i currently find interesting (suggestions are appreciated ofc):
sk/spoil
wins my heart atm, since it's a partial debuffer and has excellent shield def...
...and it's possible in that shmexy female skin...
glad/spoil
i saw this sub mentioned somewhere on this forum and i think it might be interesting.
would it have mana issues, becouse of the number of mana eating skills?
is it possible to spoil with duals?
pal/spoil
ai, self-res... sure it's powerfull but the popularity of pal is a major turn-off.
while we're at tanks... tk/spoil or da/spoil? ;p
tyr/spoil
a spoiler classic... but i kinda dislike fists ;/
the most important thing for this char is not ownage, but fun playing with it in pt and some efficiency...
and some additional info to help me decide: no rb jewelry. tallum heavy +5 set. s grade weapon with no sa.
and ofc, i considered ee/spoil is awesome for the obvious trolls.
grrrr... ok, I know I'm missing it, but I just don't get it. Retail subs can be other races, but don't stack. DN subs stack, but are the same race. So how would you get something that (for example) has both Glad (human) skills and spoiler (dwarf) skills at the SAME time? and if they don't, what's the damn point?
could someone please explain, in SIMPLE English terms that the poor old confused granny can finally understand?
retail subs DO stack, its just you have to go thru all the quests to retail then sub, so its just alot longer.
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 19, 2009, 04:37:54 AM
grrrr... ok, I know I'm missing it, but I just don't get it. Retail subs can be other races, but don't stack. DN subs stack, but are the same race. So how would you get something that (for example) has both Glad (human) skills and spoiler (dwarf) skills at the SAME time? and if they don't, what's the damn point?
could someone please explain, in SIMPLE English terms that the poor old confused granny can finally understand?
uhmmm... i see lots of mutants on nm... where do you play that you haven't noticed them? :O
+ a guide how to make them - http://dnwiki.dragon-community.net/index.php/Category:Mutant
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 19, 2009, 04:37:54 AM
grrrr... ok, I know I'm missing it, but I just don't get it. Retail subs can be other races, but don't stack. DN subs stack, but are the same race. So how would you get something that (for example) has both Glad (human) skills and spoiler (dwarf) skills at the SAME time? and if they don't, what's the damn point?
could someone please explain, in SIMPLE English terms that the poor old confused granny can finally understand?
Ok heres the deal... Mutant walkthrough:
If you start let's say a Dwarf, you can only subclass it to other dwarfs if you try and subclass at lvl 76+.
But if you for example want lets say a Spoiler/Sk you will start with a completely diffrent class within the same race. Lets say i would like a spoil/sk in dark elf female skin. I would start a DE female character that is NOT sk... for example SH.
I lvl that SH up untill i can start retail quest.... i make my retail sub to the class within the other race that i would like to have. In this case Spoiler.
So now you have the spoiler in dark elf female skin. Now all you have to do is lvl that spoiler and get a horn. Once you've got the horn you can go to sir eric rodermai. Sir Eric is a bit dumb so he can't see that you are on your retail subclass.... so he's gonna give you the option to subclass as if you were a dark elf.
You the choose SK sub while you are at your spoiler subclass... Voila you have an SH// SK/Spoil.
As for the author of the thread.... I would choose SK/Spoil :) SK is the king of tanks, and if you have the HP of a dwarf its gonna be a monster. You will probably not do as much dmg as the other combos. But i really like the SK playstyle and shield defence :P
Quote from: kidicarus on May 19, 2009, 11:16:38 AM
As for the author of the thread.... I would choose SK/Spoil :) SK is the king of tanks, and if you have the HP of a dwarf its gonna be a monster. You will probably not do as much dmg as the other combos. But i really like the SK playstyle and shield defence :P
thanks for the reply, it's greatly appreciated :d
i have also realized a tank sub would be better since my usual farm squad consists of mages and pulling aggro on myself could save the pt at times...
but i'm ofc open to more constructive input :D
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 19, 2009, 04:37:54 AM
could someone please explain, in SIMPLE English terms that the poor old confused granny can finally understand?
granny english: ( <3 )
Retail subclass =
- when we are talking about the subclass from the official server.
- Your Look stays, but your skills change completely.
DNet subclass =
- when u add a subclass, that is the same as your main class (Created char, look, profession)
- You get new skills from another class
Normal Dnet subclass char (the most common dnet char with skills from 2 characters of the same race)
Mutant Dnet subclass char (newly added system of subclassing, combines 2 characters of 2 different races)
people call it mutant, but to understand it better, we should call it a Bastard.
its a combination of elf + human for example. the outcome is an Elf/human hybrid.
lets say
A = main char class (this is how u created your char)
B = retail subclass (u did mimir elixier quest and can change your character to have totally different skills)
C = Dnet subclass (after hunting golkonda u can add a subclass from the same race of your mainclass)A+
C = Most common dnet subclassed char
B+
C = Bastard subclassed char
i hope this is understandable.
PS: for topic creater.
the smaller your party = the richer your party gets.
i recently made a tyr/bh. simple of the fact. that i just need 1 support char (can be prophet only)
and i can solo everywhere. including dino with some effort.
with bison on. i dont even have to use mana for:
Stab mana (dagger)
nuke mana (mage)
support mana (supporter)
tank mana (aggression, tank etc)
if u need to pull aggro for your partymembers, then your party is not good.
if u really need to save your partymember, then make a support/spoiler.
the fact that sk is a partial debuffer doesnt win my heart, since most mobs, should die fast enough on a server with stacking subs.
u cant be bothered debuffing mobs, aggroing mobs, or whatever.
u have enough to worry, when u spoil and sweep.
whenever i make a small spoil party. i never want that the spoiler dualboxes a buffer or damagedealer.
a spoiler plays the spoiler. he has enough running + spoiling to do.
and whoever thinks spoiling is easy: is in a bad party, doesnt spoil good or is an easy mob area.
Quote from: Futile on May 19, 2009, 12:01:03 PM
PS: for topic creater.
the smaller your party = the richer your party gets.
i recently made a tyr/bh. simple of the fact. that i just need 1 support char (can be prophet only)
and i can solo everywhere. including dino with some effort.
with bison on. i dont even have to use mana for:
Stab mana (dagger)
nuke mana (mage)
support mana (supporter)
tank mana (aggression, tank etc)
if u need to pull aggro for your partymembers, then your party is not good.
if u really need to save your partymember, then make a support/spoiler.
the fact that sk is a partial debuffer doesnt win my heart, since most mobs, should die fast enough on a server with stacking subs.
u cant be bothered debuffing mobs, aggroing mobs, or whatever.
u have enough to worry, when u spoil and sweep.
whenever i make a small spoil party. i never want that the spoiler dualboxes a buffer or damagedealer.
a spoiler plays the spoiler. he has enough running + spoiling to do.
and whoever thinks spoiling is easy: is in a bad party, doesnt spoil good or is an easy mob area.
oh damn... i agree spoiling is not as easy as one might think. i have played as a pure spoiler a few times in dino and it was always frantic with the constant spoiling and sweeping before the mobs dissapear...
isn't it too hard to handle with all the force that the tyr has to gather in order to use his skills? and isn't tyrant's mana consumption also high? i also don't have zaken which as far as i know is essantial for tyr subs to control the hp to keep it under 30%...
but you made me think of this sub...
also it's not a problem for me to share the wealth with good friends and playing solo has become a real turn off for me lately - i'd rather play a single player game instead...
Spoil/destro or spoil/ty are just great.
Better spoil/destro, as you can use HP skills instead of MP skills, to let you spoil.
@ Kidicarus and Futile: thanks guys, you finally got it through my head. ;D (I hadn't realized the "Sir Eric is kinda dumb" part, think that's what has been throwing me off)
@ Klytus: yes, I've seen them everywhere. That's what was making me crazy, I knew it was possible, but the directions how didn't seem logical. (untill the "Sir Eric is dumb" statement) sorry I added my question in your thread, glad they answered us both... hope I at least gave you a good chuckle ;D
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 19, 2009, 03:00:55 PM
@ Klytus: yes, I've seen them everywhere. That's what was making me crazy, I knew it was possible, but the directions how didn't seem logical. (untill the "Sir Eric is dumb" statement) sorry I added my question in your thread, glad they answered us both... hope I at least gave you a good chuckle ;D
i don't mind. there's so much to learn about this game, so it's normal when things as that happen.
i'm curious if you're planning some mutant now... since the discovery of mutants can make heads explodes of the sheer number of possibilities ;D
and i'm really confused about my future spoil mutant... one one hand sk/spoil seems fine, but other subs seem to be more efficient... :D
not sure. might play with the idea on Arena, can't afford it here. in 3 years, I havn't managed to get a single char above 70, and couldn't equip one if I did... let alone buy a horn... lol
Dont forget to applaud me. so everybody else sees, that i am able to help.
Quote from: Klytus on May 19, 2009, 01:36:05 PM
isn't it too hard to handle with all the force that the tyr has to gather in order to use his skills? and isn't tyrant's mana consumption also high? i also don't have zaken which as far as i know is essantial for tyr subs to control the hp to keep it under 30%...
also it's not a problem for me to share the wealth with good friends and playing solo has become a real turn off for me lately - i'd rather play a single player game instead...
u are not forced to use your damage skills that require forces. every 10 minutes just charge up 7 times. to be able to use break duress, force barrier, force meditation and yes sometimes if u aggroed too many mobs. then u can use your force damage skills.
just bison + zaken. target. spoil +sweep.
enjoy fast killing in small parties + fast spoiling
anyway it sounded to me that your spoil parties are not so strong. hearing u speak about aggroing mobs and especially debuffing mobs, made me think, that u should improve your party setups.
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 19, 2009, 03:45:15 PM
not sure. might play with the idea on Arena, can't afford it here. in 3 years, I havn't managed to get a single char above 70, and couldn't equip one if I did... let alone buy a horn... lol
thats because u share so much stuff and give so much stuff for free, to your friends.
u should consider also, if those that always receive and receive from u. aint exploiting your good will.
does a spoil/tyr work good in orc skin too? :D
thanks for your words of insight...
Quote from: Klytus on May 19, 2009, 09:44:09 PM
does a spoil/tyr work good in orc skin too? :D
thanks for your words of insight...
orc skin? doesnt matter how it looks like....
Quote from: Futile on May 19, 2009, 10:55:56 PM
orc skin? doesnt matter how it looks like....
i just wanted to avoid things that happen to orc archer subs in non-orc skin...
From my own expirience (i used to be spoil / sk at Dragon for 2+years) it seems like this char is pretty nice,if you are fan of SK big time.
But there is no way to make spoil efficient,unless u got damage dealer in party.I use to know spoil / tyr who was really insane with bow.But i think Bizon or whatever it calls got nerfed.Spoil / DE might be not as good as it used to be,coz Freenzy works same as on retail....from what i heard....If i would be you...i might go for spoil / paladin....AI,Flaming icon,self ress and etc....
another mutant i've seen was spoil /TH and it seems like he is doing pretty good,but i dont really understand what is real benefits out of this sub....coz mostly peoples go for dwarfs,coz we got a lot of HP,but u have to be on Dwarf class,so u got low crit rayt,atk.spd,etc....so its no good for TH.....i hope u see my point and sorry for my bad english :)
P.S. since i posted once in a great while...CHECK THIS OUT.....DWARVEN LOVERS ^.^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In-rrOA6tVM&feature=related
P.S.2 selecting sub for dwarf mutant also depends on your gamestyle....but for exemple before IL i was able to kill most of the classes,oncluded old Glad HERO....SofiaTheReal,peoples who knows me,can prove that i don't lie :)
hmmm... I havn't had a problem with HP on any of the fighter classes I've tried, so playing on human stats for that wouldn't bother me. What I WOULD miss would be the weight carrying capacity. I do so love to be able to head out with a weeks worth of shots 'n' pots and still be under 45% weight............. (and I mean that literaly, I really don't have to go back in for a week)
Quote from: ChillyWilly on May 20, 2009, 05:59:47 AM
hmmm... I havn't had a problem with HP on any of the fighter classes I've tried, so playing on human stats for that wouldn't bother me. What I WOULD miss would be the weight carrying capacity. I do so love to be able to head out with a weeks worth of shots 'n' pots and still be under 45% weight............. (and I mean that literaly, I really don't have to go back in for a week)
truth is - dwarf have a weight increase passive. if you would make a mutant and use it in for example human stats, you could probably still carry about twice the load as other humans.
Quote from: HeroCraft on May 20, 2009, 05:09:26 AM
From my own expirience (i used to be spoil / sk at Dragon for 2+years) it seems like this char is pretty nice,if you are fan of SK big time.
But there is no way to make spoil efficient,unless u got damage dealer in party.I use to know spoil / tyr who was really insane with bow.But i think Bizon or whatever it calls got nerfed.Spoil / DE might be not as good as it used to be,coz Freenzy works same as on retail....from what i heard....If i would be you...i might go for spoil / paladin....AI,Flaming icon,self ress and etc....
another mutant i've seen was spoil /TH and it seems like he is doing pretty good,but i dont really understand what is real benefits out of this sub....coz mostly peoples go for dwarfs,coz we got a lot of HP,but u have to be on Dwarf class,so u got low crit rayt,atk.spd,etc....so its no good for TH.....i hope u see my point and sorry for my bad english :)
well, i'm pretty much excited about sk, one of the few classes i somehow always wanted to play, but for some reasons had no chance of doing so justify being a tank... so about that sk/spoil: what stats did you play on? did LS land nicely on t-rexes or other mobs?
spoil/th = money maker. spoil, open boxes and lure mobs out of groups to spoil them.
Quote from: Klytus on May 20, 2009, 10:40:02 AM
well, i'm pretty much excited about sk, one of the few classes i somehow always wanted to play, but for some reasons had no chance of doing so justify being a tank... so about that sk/spoil: what stats did you play on? did LS land nicely on t-rexes or other mobs?
Just do the one you like to play. Personally i love SK cause its so versitaille, you can even gear up your dwarf in mage gear and use the "nukes" from SK. It has great shield defence, some good skills (shield of faith rox).
But you need to have one thing clear and that is that it is far from the strongest class to go... Atleast not from an offensive point of view. You will do sucky damage in PvE. You will be a TANK.
SK's downside is that you don't have alot of HP.... with a dwarf subclass you will definately take care of that little issue. And you will be able to stun with blunt (you could use am+a for debuffs and stun's)
So if you like to solo and have alot of PvP point's this is not the class for you. If you'd like to be strong in 1 vs 1, if you wanna be a defensive reinforced brickwall, and if you wanna have alot of skills to use then choose SK.
And it seems as if either LS is nerfed or mobs are pumped up, but i don't even land LS on magestats. So i would give up trying to land it in fighter stats.