Hi
in IL we had clan luck nerfed so that u lose some exp even when you die with it, now you dont lose even 0.01% if you die, that sux imo especially for high-rate servers like x30 and x15. PvP or PK makes no any sense and PK even turned into a stupid risk since enemy simply loses nothing. I think it should be nerfed like it was in IL.
Opinions and some GM reply would be nice plx xD
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 04:32:29 PM
Hi
in IL we had clan luck nerfed so that u lose some exp even when you die with it, now you dont lose even 0.01% if you die, that sux imo especially for high-rate servers like x30 and x15. PvP or PK makes no any sense and PK even turned into a stupid risk since enemy simply loses nothing. I think it should be nerfed like it was in IL.
Opinions and some GM reply would be nice plx xD
From where u r standing, Mr. Event winner 5 times in a row ;) (gz btw), its sure no fun to kill some ppl acknowledging that u dont deal them real pain (pleasure of xping), but some kids who play in clans and try to get damn 76 lvl when wars in dynasty kill them or just pk dont think so. And btw all ur serious enemies dont got so much headache to xp (good gear, tyr/des etc), but low grade (1 acc, no clan even to help, bad gear etc) ppl will suffer.
I would better consider needs of low grade ppl then of elite of server. And btw clan luck makes ppl join clans, lvl up academy members for reputation points etc...
On server we got alot of low grade ppl that have enough problems with B, A, S, S80 gear and horns. Dont make their life even harder.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 04:32:29 PM
Hi
in IL we had clan luck nerfed so that u lose some exp even when you die with it, now you dont lose even 0.01% if you die, that sux imo especially for high-rate servers like x30 and x15. PvP or PK makes no any sense and PK even turned into a stupid risk since enemy simply loses nothing. I think it should be nerfed like it was in IL.
Opinions and some GM reply would be nice plx xD
And ur point is? De-lvl ur enemies?
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 03, 2009, 04:48:14 PM
From where u r standing, Mr. Event winner 5 times in a row, its sure no fun to kill some ppl acknowledging that u dont deal them real pain (pleasure of xping), but some kids who play in clans and try to get damn 76 lvl when wars in dynasty kill them or just pk dont think so.
why would someone join active clan with many wars when he isnt prepared for a real pvp?
QuoteI would better consider needs of low grade ppl then of elite of server. And btw clan luck makes ppl join clans, lvl up academy members for reputation points etc...
people joined clan in c1/c2/c3/c4 long before clan skills were invented, they joined clans not for sake of clan skills but to play in team
QuoteOn server we got alot of low grade ppl that have enough problems with B, A, S, S80 gear and horns. Dont make their life even harder.
That wasnt my point. I dont like when me and my friend th/pp are fighting 7v2 noobs (with S and S80 gear tho) and they just keep ressing themselves with bots untill our mana goes off. Dying should have some price here so u have a reason to keep your char alive.
Quote from: Sephiroth on August 03, 2009, 04:53:13 PM
And ur point is? De-lvl ur enemies?
It goes right after making pvp points.
not losing a considerable high amount of exp when you are killed, will make it hardly worth fighting.
of course u will end up grinding less.
Spending less time exping = less activity on server
Losing practically nothing, but your time in pvp = less pleasure pvping, when killing somebody (its cruel, but essential as a reward)
Considering those two major points, there isnt really a point to keep clan luck.
PS: using half of a braincell is to exhausing for some.
Getting rid of clan luck is a stupid idea.
As was said. The only people who suffer are those low levels. You act as though wars and pk's are a thing that those who are killed want. The reality is that some people don't want wars. The reality is that the victims don't want assholes like you to take their exp. Clan luck allows people to continue to level even with assholes roaming the servers. Disable clan luck and it will be yet another nail in the coffin for these servers. Already s80 Dnet dynasty is hax and those without it are at a huge disadvantage. Already donators rule the server. Already it is hard as hell for new people to join the community and making it harder to gain exp is definitely not going to help. Why do you care so much that other people aren't losing exp because it certainly isn't you who is concerned. I say it should be worked out that ONLY these people asking for no clan luck to have NO clan luck. Everyone else should enjoy the benefits of keeping clan luck intact and working correctly.
Quote from: SolarWind on August 03, 2009, 05:24:52 PM
Getting rid of clan luck is a stupid idea.
As was said. The only people who suffer are those low levels. You act as though wars and pk's are a thing that those who are killed want. The reality is that some people don't want wars. The reality is that the victims don't want assholes like you to take their exp. Clan luck allows people to continue to level even with assholes roaming the servers. Disable clan luck and it will be yet another nail in the coffin for these servers. Already s80 Dnet dynasty is hax and those without it are at a huge disadvantage. Already donators rule the server. Already it is hard as hell for new people to join the community and making it harder to gain exp is definitely not going to help. Why do you care so much that other people aren't losing exp because it certainly isn't you who is concerned. I say it should be worked out that ONLY these people asking for no clan luck to have NO clan luck. Everyone else should enjoy the benefits of keeping clan luck intact and working correctly.
First of all idk how low lvls can suffer from removing clan luck since on low lvl its easy to exp and what low lvls are doing in clans which have clan wars vs "evil donators in dynasty". The reality is that L2 is offencive game and u always have a choice tho. Dont want war - leave clan, dont want pk - leave location. If you are weak you can just avoid pvp/pk and when I came up with idea to fix clan luck I wasnt thinking about going to delvl some lvl 60 noobs about whose I dont care at all.
I thought that its necessary to fix clan luck when I was fighting other "donators in dynasty" who just die like flies even outnumbering my party.
L2 isnt a carebear game, u should have a reason to keep your char alive and, yes, maybe its cruel, but making enemy lose exp is a kind of reward for winning too.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
First of all idk how low lvls can suffer from removing clan luck since on low lvl its easy to exp and what low lvls are doing in clans which have clan wars vs "evil donators in dynasty". The reality is that L2 is offencive game and u always have a choice tho. Dont want war - leave clan, dont want pk - leave location. If you are weak you can just avoid pvp/pk and when I came up with idea to fix clan luck I wasnt thinking about going to delvl some lvl 60 noobs about whose I dont care at all.
I thought that its necessary to fix clan luck when I was fighting other "donators in dynasty" who just die like flies even outnumbering my party.
L2 isnt a carebear game, u should have a reason to keep your char alive and, yes, maybe its cruel, but making enemy lose exp is a kind of reward for winning too.
Then make a clan without clan luck and stfu.
Totally agree with Alex.
Clans in was already lose 1/4 on normal exp loss, which means 0.25% on high lvls
With current Clun luck new clans, that don't get CRP from bugs, suffer even more, casue they always lose more than their enemies can lose.
And who coms to lineage to just grind, can chose less "cruel" game, lineage differs from many other MMORPG with it PvP system. And turning it to "+1post " (+1 pvp in stats) is a stupid idea.
So let's add also that we can drop if mobs kill us and we're not pk,dmn this was really nice ;D every time that server had crash you had to pray
Quote from: alfy on August 03, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
So let's add also that we can drop if mobs kill us and we're not pk,dmn this was really nice ;D every time that server had crash you had to pray
good idea to lower ammount of bots btw. and if u dont know when server crashes mobs and enemies are crashing too so they cant hurt u dont worry.
Quote from: alfy on August 03, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
So let's add also that we can drop if mobs kill us and we're not pk,dmn this was really nice ;D every time that server had crash you had to pray
WTB svetovakurwa.
Sorry but since IL, some people made this server carebear style, just cause they got owned at pvp :/
actually low level/gear ppl will join low clans which CANNOT HAVE CLAN LUCK because its hard to get.
so your argument is rubbish.
With a war, you lose 0.5% while dying. With rez on top, you lose only 0.3%. Thats 1 mob. ONE mob. At level 85! You need a ty/de to kill a single mob?
With clan luck you don't even see the % bar number changing.
Quote from: mcmartin on August 03, 2009, 06:55:18 PM
actually low level/gear ppl will join low clans which CANNOT HAVE CLAN LUCK because its hard to get.
so your argument is rubbish.
With a war, you lose 0.5% while dying. With rez on top, you lose only 0.3%. Thats 1 mob. ONE mob. At level 85! You need a ty/de to kill a single mob?
With clan luck you don't even see the % bar number changing.
we are loosing 0.005% when killed during sieges ::) so... 2 deaths = 0.01% ...
clan skills add about 5%to stats (vary on lvl)
so making clan luck saving 5% exp loss can be fair (example lose 0.95% on death instead of 1%)
Quote from: flamingAwe on August 03, 2009, 07:19:21 PM
clan skills add about 5%to stats (vary on lvl)
so making clan luck saving 5% exp loss can be fair (example lose 0.95% on death instead of 1%)
yea it was like that in IL and nobody complained
i lose 0.01 on level 80 per 1 death....
What is fair is leaving clan luck alone. As I said. If you don't want clan luck then don't buy it. No one is making you purchase clan luck.
Anyway,I can't understand why u wanna nerf it,some of u say that pvp isn't the same when ur enemy doesn't lose exp at all,but,again,the point of it?.Dragon and NM r high rated servers,getting the lost exp is easy,if when u kill/pk ur enemy u aren't happy cos he doesn't lose X exp is,imo,stupid.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 04:59:56 PM
Question: why would someone join active clan with many wars when he isnt prepared for a real pvp?
Answer: people joined clan in c1/c2/c3/c4 long before clan skills were invented, they joined clans not for sake of clan skills but to play in team
Its hard to xp alone when u dont know much about game and u dont have supports.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
when I came up with idea to fix clan luck I wasnt thinking about going to delvl some lvl 60 noobs about whose I dont care at all.
But some ppl are EVIL, not all are Heroes in shining armor and btw ur pro clan came to fort siege to just pwn ppl in A grade (Ivory tower fortress siege for example, u weren't then at it). Didnt see glory in that... But its not talk about ur clan or smthing. But - road to hell is builled by good intentions.
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 03, 2009, 10:29:10 PM
Its hard to xp alone when u dont know much about game and u dont have supports.
But some ppl are EVIL, not all are Heroes in shining armor and btw ur pro clan came to fort siege to just pwn ppl in A grade (Ivory tower fortress siege for example, u weren't then at it). Didnt see glory in that... But its not talk about ur clan or smthing. But - road to hell is builled by good intentions.
dude, level 60 chars do NOT have a clan with clan luck. usually, they barely even have a clan at all, or they're tiny alt clans, which cannot afford the level of clan luck. why you'd defend clan luck so dearly? the only time it makes a difference, is when 50 guys go die against, like, 9, during 2H of siege non-stop, hoping they'll run out of pots.
Oh and it's not just a story, I *have* seen that happening more than once.
Quote from: HelloWorlds on August 04, 2009, 10:52:37 AM
dude, level 60 chars do NOT have a clan with clan luck. usually, they barely even have a clan at all, or they're tiny alt clans, which cannot afford the level of clan luck. why you'd defend clan luck so dearly? the only time it makes a difference, is when 50 guys go die against, like, 9, during 2H of siege non-stop, hoping they'll run out of pots.
Oh and it's not just a story, I *have* seen that happening more than once.
lvl 60 is category that Alex proposed as Low grade. I would say ppl even at 76 with no 3rd job or with it but without sub is low grade for chars like Alex.
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 04, 2009, 11:00:04 AM
lvl 60 is category that Alex proposed as Low grade. I would say ppl even at 76 with no 3rd job or with it but without sub is low grade for chars like Alex.
i don't know alex but obviously the only people in clan that can have enemies and pvps are lvl 76+ with 3rd class and minimum A grade.
tell me the reason you fear so much losing 0.3% XP (instead of basically 0.00) ? i'm sure you've sub and 3rd class and you're level 79+ at least on your main char.
Quote from: HelloWorlds on August 04, 2009, 11:06:34 AM
i don't know alex but obviously the only people in clan that can have enemies and pvps are lvl 76+ with 3rd class and minimum A grade.
tell me the reason you fear so much losing 0.3% XP (instead of basically 0.00) ? i'm sure you've sub and 3rd class and you're level 79+ at least on your main char.
;D imagine that some ppl care about other ppl, not only about themselves.... and u will understand WHY.
Yes, i personally have sub, s grade, good clan, 3rd class and dont have problems with xping.
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 04, 2009, 11:18:52 AM
;D imagine that some ppl care about other ppl, not only about themselves.... and u will understand WHY.
Yes, i personally have sub, s grade, good clan, 3rd class and dont have problems with xping.
no, there's nothing to understand. we addressed the point of lower level people. they're not in clans that are able to have clan luck.
so you don't know why you've a problem with clan luck basically.
absolutely amazing, everyone that wants to keep clan luck is not seeing the bigger picture here.
the argument: "dont get clan luck, if u want clan luck being removed" is hilariously sad.
Those that oppose clan luck are the hunters.
They want it removed, because if they kill their prey, the victims literally lose no xp.
Of course though, for the hunter the passive buff clan luck is beneficial too, in case a bigger hunter comes, or the prey unites and luckily kills the predator.
Nevertheless the thrill for the hunter, to kill their victim diminishes, if they dont even lose exp.
Its harder for a high lvl person (lvl 82+) to regain exp, then for a low lvl person (76+)
(Those that are below lvl 76, shouldnt complain or comment at all)
I stay on my thesis, that the clan luck passive right now, kills partly the pvp/pk fun.
Its a simple conclusion.
Clan luck should be removed, to keep the server alive.
Once u are high lvl and have good equipment, there is nothing else to do, then to pvp.
On a x1 Server, clan luck might make sense. but we have x15 and x30 servers.
Therefor Clanluck should be removed As Soon As Possible.
As I see everybody are protecting low levels and their point of keeping clan luck is just to help to low levels. Ok, those under 76 w/o third prof can be counted as low levels too, but its very easy to exp on those levels too, in the end they have clans as you say, where they can find party and buffs for exping. But even if some newbies will suffer from that, nerfing clan luck is much more important to keep alive the pvp system.
It's much more fun when you don't want to lose (tho for me death is already a defeat) and do anything it takes to survive than you just think "ok i dont lose exp" and die.
Quote from: Alex on August 04, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
As I see everybody are protecting low levels and their point of keeping clan luck is just to help to low levels. Ok, those under 76 w/o third prof can be counted as low levels too, but its very easy to exp on those levels too, in the end they have clans as you say, where they can find party and buffs for exping. But even if some newbies will suffer from that, nerfing clan luck is much more important to keep alive the pvp system.
It's much more fun when you don't want to lose (tho for me death is already a defeat) and do anything it takes to survive than you just think "ok i dont lose exp" and die.
I still cannot understand ur point...for it's been the same since C4,I don't mind if my enemies lose exp or not since our servers r high rated.Neither I used to care of dying in C4 times.
Quote from: Futile on August 04, 2009, 11:59:20 AM
Its a simple conclusion.
Clan luck should be removed, to keep the server alive.
Once u are high lvl and have good equipment, there is nothing else to do, then to pvp.
If we want keep server alive - lets go to topic about horn quest and say bump. And thats how u will make more pvp, more fun, cuz more ppl participate.
Other reason for keeping clan luck. Working ppl that play in evenings come in game to pvp, not to xp all night. I hope all can agree on this one? Coz pvp is what u all want anyway. And imagine that u have to xp just to xp again in few days to not loose s grade lvl.
Your arguments against clan luck are pure bullshit. Unadulterated, uncut, pure and prime bullshit. You say on the one hand make exp loss like it's supposed to be and yet clan luck is working EXACTLY like it's supposed too. You say you want your enemies to lose exp yet the only server this matters at all on is ONE server. Infinity at the lowest rate. All the other servers it is laughable to think it even freaking matters how you die at any level. You are just pathetic in trying to justify this. Clearly you idiots are high level with great gear and can't even begin to remember what it was like to not have this gear. Because it's not skill that makes pvp on these servers and in this games. It is PURELY and ONLY gear and buffs. And stop acting as though your motives are pure and altruistic. Trying to say it's for the good of the server if people lose exp is so freaking retarded I can't even begin to express it. Are you saying this with a straight face?
Quote from: Sephiroth on August 04, 2009, 01:14:30 PM
I still cannot understand ur point...for it's been the same since C4,I don't mind if my enemies lose exp or not since our servers r high rated.Neither I used to care of dying in C4 times.
Indeed on 78+ u lose just 0.25% from dying by war, its just 2 mobs on HB island, but anyway u need to spend time to kill these mobs and losing exp is a kind of traditional L2 penalty for death. On high rated servers like here its not unbearable so keeping the present clan luck is just lame.
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 04, 2009, 01:47:34 PM
If we want keep server alive - lets go to topic about horn quest and say bump. And thats how u will make more pvp, more fun, cuz more ppl participate.
Other reason for keeping clan luck. Working ppl that play in evenings come in game to pvp, not to xp all night. I hope all can agree on this one? Coz pvp is what u all want anyway. And imagine that u have to xp just to xp again in few days to not loose s grade lvl.
Spending time to exp is an essential part of L2 as well as pvp, everybody except GM narog from x15 server have spent time to exp their chars. Some do it faster and some do it slower. In the end there are tons of bishops and EEs on server who can ress restoring 80% and 90% of lost exp.
Quote from: SolarWind on August 04, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Your arguments against clan luck are pure bullshit. Unadulterated, uncut, pure and prime bullshit. You say on the one hand make exp loss like it's supposed to be and yet clan luck is working EXACTLY like it's supposed too. You say you want your enemies to lose exp yet the only server this matters at all on is ONE server. Infinity at the lowest rate. All the other servers it is laughable to think it even freaking matters how you die at any level. You are just pathetic in trying to justify this. Clearly you idiots are high level with great gear and can't even begin to remember what it was like to not have this gear. Because it's not skill that makes pvp on these servers and in this games. It is PURELY and ONLY gear and buffs. And stop acting as though your motives are pure and altruistic. Trying to say it's for the good of the server if people lose exp is so freaking retarded I can't even begin to express it. Are you saying this with a straight face?
your poor replies barely contain anything except low insults so its my last answer to you
1. im far from 85 lvl and i need to exp a lot to finally forget about exping
2. i remember how i started playing on dragon servers and when i was alone w/o sub/equip/friends/buff bot chars, i didnt even think about going to cry on forum to remove exp penalty totally
3. to use the right buffs for pvp u need to think just a bit and e.g. if u used all the possible resists u can take down some stupid mage with raid set and dyna+6 having just draco and tate sets.
hope everything above will make u think instead of whining on forums about other players' equipment and buffs.
There is no whining. I am stating facts.
The "traditional" game you talk of doesn't exist anymore. Go find an old server still playing C4. Clan luck is working AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO. It is is a thing of the past to lose so much exp. That ended when Interlude came. Get over it and move on. Lineage II is not a static game. I don't like many other changes myself but it is what it is. Stop trying to roll back the clock for the rest of us. Clan luck is a freaking good thing. As I said. If you don't want it then don't freaking buy it.
gear matters of course but the difference is not always that huge. what makes a huge diff: buffs, baium/aq on fighter, weapons above +10 S80. even the op DNET dyna set, while too strong, isnt giving a big enough advantage.
a dude in dc robe and am+3 can kill an archer in dyna and draco +10 both with good buffs and resits
a dude in maj light (but tate jewels please) and c grade dagger can kill a mage in dyna robe and am+10
that's because some classes are better vs some others. thats L2 knowledge.
personally, i have a and some s grade, once my chars reach max level, no matter how much i pvp, not only i never lose xp, but actually i win some xp by killing mobs to get to wars. and i don't even have clan luck
meaning i start to pvp at lvl 85 eg, zero xp, a week later im 85 and 10%.
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 04, 2009, 01:47:34 PM
If we want keep server alive - lets go to topic about horn quest and say bump. And thats how u will make more pvp, more fun, cuz more ppl participate.
Other reason for keeping clan luck. Working ppl that play in evenings come in game to pvp, not to xp all night. I hope all can agree on this one? Coz pvp is what u all want anyway. And imagine that u have to xp just to xp again in few days to not loose s grade lvl.
Stay on the topic. horn has nothing to do with it.
Are u actually saying, keeping clan luck to support people that play less, is a good argument to keep it?
Right now people just die, and dont care about it, since they lose practically nothing.Quote from: SolarWind on August 04, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
1) Your arguments against clan luck are pure bullshit. Unadulterated, uncut, pure and prime bullshit.
2) You say on the one hand make exp loss like it's supposed to be and yet clan luck is working EXACTLY like it's supposed too.
3) You say you want your enemies to lose exp yet the only server this matters at all on is ONE server.
Infinity at the lowest rate. All the other servers it is laughable to think it even freaking matters how you die at any level.
You are just pathetic in trying to justify this.
4) Clearly you idiots are high level with great gear and can't even begin to remember what it was like to not have this gear.
Because it's not skill that makes pvp on these servers and in this games.
It is PURELY and ONLY gear and buffs.
5) And stop acting as though your motives are pure and altruistic. Trying to say it's for the good of the server if people lose exp is so freaking retarded I can't even begin to express it. Are you saying this with a straight face?
1) Your arguments on the other hand are pure and filled with wisdom right? Anyone using vulgar language, usually has no point and is trying to win his argument, by empty hateful words.
2) I never said to make clanluck the way its suppose to be. i said: remove it completely.
3) New players benefit enough by playing on a high rate server. When dying, they should lose experience.
They can regain experience still pretty fast. With Clanluck, dying is no big deal, experience wise.
In fact people should lose more experience when being killed, since this is a high rate server. But its fine by me, if they just lose the normal amount.
But Now, people dont lose experience, due to clanluck.
4) My gear is just normal, and i levelled many different classes and plaied on many different servers since the first release of lineage 2.
i know exactly, what its like to start as a beginner.
If u believe that gear and buffs are the only components, that influences the result of a pvp, then there is no hope for u.
5) You are not seeing the bigger picture, as i mentioned before.
You say yourself, that losing experience like 2-5% is no big deal on a high rate server.
Yet u are for clanluck, which makes experience lose to 0,01% - 0,005%.
Something isnt right there in your main argument.
Those that are for removing clanluck, just want the victims to lose at least Some experience.
Not like it is right now. (losing experience below "0,xxx")
If u are an Infinity player, there might be some space for your argument.
But for Nightmare and Dragon, which we are in fact discussing about since 3 forum pages, Clanluck needs to be removed.
Quote from: Futile on August 04, 2009, 03:06:36 PM
Stay on the topic. horn has nothing to do with it.
Are u actually saying, keeping clan luck to support people that play less, is a good argument to keep it?
They are not playing more cuz of work. They wont play more if they will hav eto xp, but they wont be on pvp and in the end they will leave.
I really don't care about more or less exp loss per death, I just know Drake should spend his time rather on important things instead of this crap.
Your argument about removing clan luck is based on high rate servers. For high rate servers it makes little to no difference anyway. The effect of removing clan luck is going to be felt most on Infinity where it makes the biggest difference. It is only x5 rate. This is the server I play on. When clan luck is removed it is removed for all servers .. or it was so in the past and I expect it would be so in the future. You wanting to remove clan luck has little effect on your server and a big effect on the one I play on. If the conversation didn't effect me I would not be posting in this thread but it does so I am.
I swear when I am angry. It doesn't make what I am saying any less true. By your own admission you agree that it has little effect on your server so why the hell are you trying to change something that doesn't really matter to you anyway? The people to whom it matters do not want it nerfed. We want it to stay as it is supposed to be.
As I said before. Assuming that everyone who is participating in pvp WANTS to participate is wrong. We cannot control other people. I don't make anyone attack me and yet it happens. I defend myself when it does. But to say just because people play this game they accept and enjoy pvp and losing exp is foolish. People play for many reasons prime among these is because their friends are here or in a certain clan.
PVP is a part of the game. True. So is clan luck. So are many things both good and stupid. There are many things I dislike about this game and many things I like. Clan luck makes some of the things I dislike easier to deal with.
Even though your latest post was better.
Infinity is the smallest server.
You are still missing the fact, that i allrdy said two times: You are not seeing the bigger picture.
While maybe it makes sense to Infinity, it doesnt on Nighmare, Dragon and Arena.
the bigger picture...
actualy on infintiy exp loss is bullshit, i mean in c4 before all had their own ty/de, it was very balanced, quite hard to keep up lvl 77/78 if you was in war, now you exp to 80 or how much you want and your done exp-ing with that char 4ever, only skill enchant can make you lose xp
If u died, u must have a penalty : this is same in most games, specialy in l2 wich is a farming game !!!!!!!
If u can't accept it, better go play to sims/tetris.... ( hopping some admins follow u ... )
just up rate of dieing based on rate if you lose 1% on infi 3% on dragon and 6% on nm but once you get all 80lvl buy all skills you dont care about exp ;o
just have clans with wars negate the effect of clan luck, so clans without war can still benifit from it
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 04, 2009, 01:47:34 PM
If we want keep server alive - lets go to topic about horn quest and say bump. And thats how u will make more pvp, more fun, cuz more ppl participate.
Other reason for keeping clan luck. Working ppl that play in evenings come in game to pvp, not to xp all night. I hope all can agree on this one? Coz pvp is what u all want anyway. And imagine that u have to xp just to xp again in few days to not loose s grade lvl.
I have 2 agree. And that's cause i exped some chars like healers, dwarfs etc really hard and i got them killed many times (flagging back when i shouldn't have). Small example: i didn't have clan luck, i was lvl 72 bp in A grd ofc and i got pked like 20 times by a clan that's mostly in dynasty, like alex's clan. Then i didn't care anymore, i started flagging back and gosh, they were so happy for the points.
I wanna ask Alex what's the fun in declaring wars to weaker clans? I saw a list of lans they declared war on....What's ur fun in defeating weaker chars? I like pvping but i don't have any fun winning vs an unsubbed in A grd.
Judging by the way u ppl are talking deleting clan luck will keep the servers alive...keep dreaming lol
-10% per death plz
Quote from: Kaylaar on August 09, 2009, 04:21:47 PM
I have 2 agree. And that's cause i exped some chars like healers, dwarfs etc really hard and i got them killed many times (flagging back when i shouldn't have). Small example: i didn't have clan luck, i was lvl 72 bp in A grd ofc and i got pked like 20 times by a clan that's mostly in dynasty, like alex's clan. Then i didn't care anymore, i started flagging back and gosh, they were so happy for the points.
I wanna ask Alex what's the fun in declaring wars to weaker clans? I saw a list of lans they declared war on....What's ur fun in defeating weaker chars? I like pvping but i don't have any fun winning vs an unsubbed in A grd.
Judging by the way u ppl are talking deleting clan luck will keep the servers alive...keep dreaming lol
free tip: BP 72 is easy to exp on undead mobs in the entry of imperial tomb with the skill "turn undead".
ontopic - there always were tons of retards in L2 and only "clan luck" won't save u from them, but instead it totally ruins pvp joy of L2 or like some idiots can die tons of times but they still will mess around and try to backstab you when you start fighting someone else.
my clan consists of very few people but we know how to play and each of us worths as 2-3 "dynasty donators" of other clan thats why we feel like we can declare war to any clan and some "big" clans are afraid to accept our war as u can see from Clear's signature.
what do u mean by "weaker char"? like 1/3 of ppl on dragon have dynasty and we often meet enemies of much larger numbers than we are. if they lose when they are 3-4x more than us that just means they suck lol. i could kill "dynasty donators" before i got dynasty and raid set and nobody can say my char (th/wl) is "hax" or "overpowered".
any pro PvPer will support clan luck nerf to smart limits not like it is now as for lamers who dont know how to pvp and want to keep clan luck just to avoid delvl in PvP its just better to find another game for them. As for ppl who like to farm in peace they usually have tons of chars including BP or EE for ress restoring nearly all exp lost.
Read and think.
(off-topic-u can't exp anywhere when u have too many wars, not even with a nuker. U wouldn't believe it but some ppl kill academy chars)
on-topic-as some ppl pointed u win over some "smartasses" and? They'll always gonna have a support char nearby 2 ress 100 %
As i saw in Clear's sig, u have declared to clans like COB or ambrosia and few other even smaller clans. I only saw 1 dyna set in COB, as far as i know noone in ambro has decent S grd atm. So what's the fun even if they accept? U get easy pvp points. That was the question. What's to u if an unsubbed in A grd doesn't lose exp, ppl that are OP will remake that exp in few minutes or get bish res.
PS I know random is small but (u wouldn't believe) some other clans are too, small or inactive. Sometimes u can't gather 3 ppl for a pvp. With a COB guy we pvped once like 1 hr, he kept coming back alone, he obviously had noone 2 call. I didn't enjoy killing him with 5 other ppl in party, even if it was war. :) Try asking for some other fixes
your welcome 2 name a different clan 2 fill that war slot if theres a better option (no point having empty war slots)
its a pvp game and we want as much pvp as possible
these other *small* clans only get our attention by flaging us or boting or other rubbish so they end up on the war list no big deal rly
and these COB ppl u speak of.. they attacked our castle with 3 partys vs our 1 so yes they can get people if they really try
and on topic i still want -10% per death 2 be applied, that COB guy who kept coming back 2 attack you for 1 hour probably lost almost no exp
Quote from: Clear on August 10, 2009, 05:37:24 PM
your welcome 2 name a different clan 2 fill that war slot if theres a better option (no point having empty war slots)
its a pvp game and we want as much pvp as possible
these other *small* clans only get our attention by flaging us or boting or other rubbish so they end up on the war list no big deal rly
and these COB ppl u speak of.. they attacked our castle with 3 partys vs our 1 so yes they can get people if they really try
and on topic i still want -10% per death 2 be applied, that COB guy who kept coming back 2 attack you for 1 hour probably lost almost no exp
well that's the question, why does that bother u or alex lol, it's not like they're ur worst real life enemies or sth, u win, they lose, it's game, i wouldn't wanna punish someone with 4-5 hrs of leveling, i'd be happy i won^^
if ppl start losing exp they will engage in pvps even less than now(wth is IskryAureli? :o )
About "they attack our castle 3 pts vs 1" it's not like u pay rent for it, that's the point of having a castle, having sieges and stuff. Ofc they attacked it, why do u have to declare war over that? U wouldn't have any siege if the whole server would sign up to defend it.
Quote from: Kaylaar on August 11, 2009, 12:43:27 AM
well that's the question, why does that bother u or alex lol, it's not like they're ur worst real life enemies or sth, u win, they lose, it's game, i wouldn't wanna punish someone with 4-5 hrs of leveling, i'd be happy i won^^
if ppl start losing exp they will engage in pvps even less than now
(wth is IskryAureli? :o )
About "they attack our castle 3 pts vs 1" it's not like u pay rent for it, that's the point of having a castle, having sieges and stuff. Ofc they attacked it, why do u have to declare war over that? U wouldn't have any siege if the whole server would sign up to defend it.
The only point to keep clan luck is that it
maybe increases the ammount of pvp on server since carebears are not afraid to lose exp. They are not our worst enemies from real life that's why I want them to lose exp in game not in real life xD
(it's some noob PL zerg clan which probably already dissolved or rejoined blue ally zerg and we forgot to remove the war)
About "they attack our castle 3 pts vs 1" Clear stated that the poor COB guy u described in your previous post which i hope u didnt forget isnt totally lonely in his clan. Nobody said they dont have the right to attack our castle 3 pt vs 1 and die there. Though I'd like them to lose exp for being skill-less noobs also it was so fun to kill them that we decided to declare the war to them (one-sided unfortunately).
Quote from: Kaylaar on August 11, 2009, 12:43:27 AM
(wth is IskryAureli? :o )
About "they attack our castle 3 pts vs 1" it's not like u pay rent for it, that's the point of having a castle, having sieges and stuff. Ofc they attacked it, why do u have to declare war over that? U wouldn't have any siege if the whole server would sign up to defend it.
IskryAureli were alot at some stage.. as alex said they may have rejoining other clans (you can suggest a war 2 replace that if u like)
and the siege.. its just 2 show that theyre not 1 single guy they can be in large numbers at time.. so no reason not 2 have war rly
How would i know the clans lol...from ur list i only recognize as in "seen the crest" gehena and inkisicion or sth (most i ve seen are in A grade and gehenna camps golkis like crazy, many unsubbed)+inactive clans like bloody fist. Dunno why u have to fill the slots tho and what clan luck has 2 do with it. TwoFaced still exists? ??? U can declare to me if u rlly wanna fill ur war slots (i don't play and nobody does in my clan but i think i ve bought clan luck xD)
Srsly the fact that u don't like/find the pvps anymore isn't a clan skill problem, look 4 the causes in the unbalanced everything on this server (mostly gear-greedy owner=expensive game items and repeated nerfing of one char or another).
PS ask Balham not 2 drop trains on me if possible, i'm gonna finish my bsoe stash with half of HB island on me... :D
Quote from: Kaylaar on August 11, 2009, 04:30:11 AM
How would i know the clans lol...from ur list i only recognize as in "seen the crest" gehena and inkisicion or sth
I have seen all of those clan, so maybe i will inform u a bit -
Hyuga - i saw alot of them few weeks ago on rb. 2 pts at least and they got fort.
Ambrosia - haven't seen them about a month. Last info they had ally with Stronghold and Afterlife (leader FDX was hero some time ago)
Hexa - donno much about them, see them 1-2 ppl all the time.
Bloodyfist - i think they joined Blue ally some weeks ago.
Inkision - blue ally, they got fort, but don't accept war from my clan as well.
Gehena - "winged" political ally. Simple ally with sonet and pxoenix(smthing). Lost fort to someone from blue ally.
DX - =D do i need to comment?
TH - 2-3 ppl alive. Got heroes and bugged fort.
BloodBonds - broke up with DX and i guess they have war now.
IskryAureli - last info from there ex-ally that they left server.
F2ckEmALL - few ppl runin around i guess mostly bots of other ppl that play in other clans.
xVenDettax - alive clan, blue ally, can gather 1-2 pts. Legend goes that leader scamed Aden ch. Some time ago owned Shutgard.
B1a - do i need coment?
NewClan - blue ally, but not a lot of them now...
2F - they got few players as i know, but they are good players. Critias for example.
Sonet - in old times there was a lot of Spanish players, but now not alot of them. Ally of Gehena.
CosaNostraCLan - love war with them too. Own mm donno remember what castle. Ally with LTW.
TheChosen - "winged ally", simple ally with Tornado and 8ball. Own Oren.
COB - was in blue ally, but i seen onli 1 men from them running around. Even Narog left. I heard they changed leader.
Of corse i may mistaken somewhere. Pls give more info if u know. =)
Quote from: Mijamoto on August 11, 2009, 09:07:02 AM
Bloodyfist - i think they joined Blue ally some weeks ago.
They're not in Blue ally. i think they have even war with them.
Losing XP isn't a matter of hate. It's a matter of game play.
When you win, you are rewarded (castle, drops, whatever)
When you loose, you have a malus (lost XP, death penality, drops, castle ownership, whatever)
the issue is that when you lose in a pvp or even a rb, or die to mobs at the moment, you lose nothing. you sacrifice nothing.
that's reserved only to "big" clans of course. all the people who are REALLY struggling to XP, they don't have clan luck. they don't have anything.
on retail, not only xp is 1X, but also, very few clans have clan luck. gathering enough RP is very difficult. imagine, if you were farming lvl 40 chars, first its 1X, then youhave to *pay euros* for each account of chars to level, then wait 7 days for char deletion ! no one does that.
here, every top clan has it.
while clan luck can still bring a bonus it just shouldnt be as important.maybe 5-10% bonus. hell, you loose less xp by having clan luck than having war, so lame clans don't war, ever, since no point for them.
if everyone lost 10% per death (yes, its exagerated), imagine how the pvp and rb would be? much more interesting imo. every rush would be carefully planned. people woulndn't win with constant zerging anymore. they would win by skill and gear (gear that you obtain by hard work - or euros/cheats here, yes, but mainly hard work. thus u get rewarded in pvp for ur hard work! )
i actually wish that we'd lose 5% per death on lvl 79+ (like on 78) and clan luck gives only 5% XP bonus over the 5% lost (so a tiny bonus only). it would be a good compromise.
with resurrection, and war/combat zone these 5% will be only 1%. 1% is 2 mobs at level 85 on 15X. even in no grade u can achieve that.
yes, if you die 100 times, its gonna be a lot of mobs. then if you die 100 times, its the penality you should get, for losing so hard.
After reading all of this i wana make a simple question.
Those who agree leting clan luck like this are WOW players or what??..
At the beggining of our server (talking about infinity Zenith times) we were losing alot of exp and moobs were giving sh1t of exp. This times were the nicest ones and no one complained about exp.
Now we dont drop with moobs, we loose no exp and we have sin eater to reduce the pk amount.
Continuing like this we are going to have a WOW server and not a L2 server IMO.
Quote from: R3D5C0RP10N on August 12, 2009, 08:23:41 PM
After reading all of this i wana make a simple question.
Those who agree leting clan luck like this are WOW players or what??..
At the beggining of our server (talking about infinity Zenith times) we were losing alot of exp and moobs were giving sh1t of exp. This times were the nicest ones and no one complained about exp.
Now we dont drop with moobs, we loose no exp and we have sin eater to reduce the pk amount.
Continuing like this we are going to have a WOW server and not a L2 server IMO.
I hate WOW ^_^
Agree with u, but u do have to remember something else-in the good old times u did not see a pvp between a char in dynasty with S 80 OE weapon vs A grade. The servers were still fresh, B grade was top equipment and a golki was spawning every 40 mins or so, so most ppl that reached 76 were subbed. A grade was only for 4-5 donators (on x15 that is).PVP was balanced. I'm not sure about infinity but that balance is now loooong gone.
Btw when i had clan luck on an active char i didn't even notice that i didn't lose much exp xD I'm just saying it doesn't cause any noticeable unbalance.
Again not sure about infinity but many things in pvps are gone - now noone has a problem attacking 5 vs 1. It used to be like "i flag someone that's in a party, the party lets us have 1 vs 1".
I flagged someone (as a joke, it was a friend) with my spoiler, and a full party in S grd hit me in the same time only cause my nick was flashing purple.
Since the pvp style changed so much and the pvps last few seconds, i think we should accept the changes in exp loss too. :)
Quote from: R3D5C0RP10N on August 12, 2009, 08:23:41 PM
Now we dont drop with moobs, we loose no exp and we have sin eater to reduce the pk amount.
Very nice thing to have, when server disc every hour...
its easy to explain:
1) Strong clans with dynasty, pvp every day.
2) Some skilled players are able to kill more then 1 equally equipped dynasty char.
3) A good party of 5 players, can kill 9+ enemies all in dynasty.
1) But a good party, has problems against 9 dynasty guys + 1 party or more in a/s grade.
2) Same goes for 1 player killing 2-3 others in dynasty easily.
3) That 1 player has problem against a full party with 2-3 dynasty guys and other lower equipped chars.
Players refer to it as: "zerg" or "dogs"
I dont mind, that they come back with greater numbers, because often enough they get crushed.
But, sometimes the "zerg" wins, and then they feel like the greatest, cause they killed dynasty guys.
They start flaming, they get a castle as a reward or zerging, they drive 5 players from their xp spots away with 23 players.
And they can keep coming and coming. thx to clanluck.
The main reason for nerfing clanluck is to reduce the zergs.
Of course there are plenty of other reasons, allrdy mentioned before.
I ofcourse agree with Alex, i actually think lvl 85 should lose 0.5 - 1 % per death.
Quote from: Kikolina on August 14, 2009, 09:39:49 PM
when u re new to something, exploring, u wish all was easier, but once u reach a point when u have everything, u realize those old times when everything was hard, actually provided a lot of fun and u wish them back
so the old players want strong penalties which would cause more fun and smaller new explorers wish their life easier and protecting whatever is the subject :P
So what about the pk drop with sin eater? Strong ppl with dynasty could always drop good stuff for the newcomers :). Anyway iam rly far from having some icarus weapon like many ppl alrdy got at infy. Btw with wars u loose rly low exp alrdy. I know that no one like to farm that much but, when u have so many BSOES and returns/PR on chars, at least destroy the BSOES that have no reason to exist at all (IMO none of them should exist for real), or make BSOE/PR/RETURN usefull only when ur pk.
@Mijamoto About droping with moobs maybe it was not so nice before with this many disconects, on that i must agree with u but, about the pk amount on drop plz give me a brake... u do pks only when u want ;).
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2009, 04:32:29 PM
Hi
in IL we had clan luck nerfed so that u lose some exp even when you die with it, now you dont lose even 0.01% if you die, that sux imo especially for high-rate servers like x30 and x15. PvP or PK makes no any sense and PK even turned into a stupid risk since enemy simply loses nothing. I think it should be nerfed like it was in IL.
Opinions and some GM reply would be nice plx xD
the problem is pvp/pk without a penality .
i think the fix is not in nerfed clan luck
i guess the solution is in makeing pks gets u for example more karma and may be also makeing decreaseing ur pk count the old (sin eater)
about pvp , its not a problem lol
Quote from: XForCE on August 16, 2009, 11:45:16 PM
the problem is pvp/pk without a penality .
i think the fix is not in nerfed clan luck
i guess the solution is in makeing pks gets u for example more karma and may be also makeing decreaseing ur pk count the old (sin eater)
about pvp , its not a problem lol
- you only lose 1 pk with new sin eater quest. so most ppl pking have more than 5 pk and can drop, since its too long to make the quest 10 times when u pk a party.
- i had just yesterday 6 ppl we killed 5 or 6 times in a row, because they were disturbing us, all they said is they dont care its 0.01% and came back and and again, why? because no penality, that's why clan luck has a problem. even without the XP loss is really low
Quote from: Kikolina on August 16, 2009, 08:47:47 PM
well old schools probably agree to remove pk quest, and newcomers are aware it could be their way to get rich but at the same time they dont wanna lose their hard earned equip so they're against? :P
And how would they lose their equip? ::)
As i said only if u want to get karma u will lose ur items, there is no other way. And if newcomers complain about ppl in dynasty, how could they do pk on old schools?
Quote from: Kikolina on August 18, 2009, 11:11:05 AM
well u think newcomers dont have a wish to pk ppl? :P
I didnt said that they dont wish. But the way u talked it seemed that they couldnt kill the oldschool ppl. So therefore how could they pk them? ;)
what i find funny is that when u die with clan luck, the % bar doesn't even move xD
Actually, with that and bish rez, you need 1000 death to lose 5% XP
that's right, 1000 death, lol. might as well just remove XP loss x)
Quote from: Kikolina on August 19, 2009, 08:27:33 AM
u missunderstood me than, i never pointed out that they couldnt kill them, i told what oldschools are up too and what noobs (or how should we call them? :D) arent.. in this case, oldschools want stronger penalties (no sin eater - more adrenaline, no clan luck - more tactical / wiser pvp) and the opposite ones are probably the ones with avarage equip that arent ready to risk their goods..
i dont know where u saw what u stated.. :P
Nevermind then. Just the way u were talking made me think about that. :P
So ur in favor on taking off sin eater y?
Quote from: Kikolina on August 20, 2009, 01:30:28 PM
sure xD my whole equip is based on pk drops :D
Lucky u :D. The only good (is this sh1t rly good ;D?xD) thing i got from a pk was a draco armor+5 till now^^