Since there was few ppl writing about theirs ideas about subs ill allow myself to share my wisdom with You.
1. Dn sub system was great on C4, with hb skills (like f.e.pt ud) its really hard to balance gameplay.
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
Solution?
1. Allow all classes to sub any class they want with retail restrictions (elf can get d. elf sub, kamaels classes only for kamaels, etc.).
2. Disable 3rd class change to sub class.
3. Don't allow to switch classes (there u have also solved 2nd point). About learning skills from sub: f.e. make special npc.
4. Remove some nerfes like ud nerf.
5. If u remove attributes make ols drain fire element
That changes will bring more balance to oly and normal pvp. sps/ee, necro/pp, tyr/wc will be no longer that strong on oli, outside players will need pp/xx, wc/xx etc chars for high lvl buffs. Also pt ud will be available only to chars with tank as main (archer, dagger, etc. skills will be limited). This system will allow mutants to play oly. And this is big+. I dont see a reason why f.e. sr cant take pp/wk/wl/tyr sub and join oly.
Finally. Se will have mojor heal on this server? I'm thinking about making se/ps there;p
Regards.
mutants are bad ass , ppls running on ol+necro aint cool xD
Quote from: barni on April 02, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
Since there was few ppl writing about theirs ideas about subs ill allow myself to share my wisdom with You.
1. Dn sub system was great on C4, with hb skills (like f.e.pt ud) its really hard to balance gameplay.
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
Solution?
1. Allow all classes to sub any class they want with retail restrictions (elf can get d. elf sub, kamaels classes only for kamaels, etc.).
2. Disable 3rd class change to sub class.
3. Don't allow to switch classes (there u have also solved 2nd point). About learning skills from sub: f.e. make special npc.
4. Remove some nerfes like ud nerf.
5. If u remove attributes make ols drain fire element
That changes will bring more balance to oly and normal pvp. sps/ee, necro/pp, tyr/wc will be no longer that strong on oli, outside players will need pp/xx, wc/xx etc chars for high lvl buffs. Also pt ud will be available only to chars with tank as main (archer, dagger, etc. skills will be limited). This system will allow mutants to play oly. And this is big+. I dont see a reason why f.e. sr cant take pp/wk/wl/tyr sub and join oly.
Finally. Se will have mojor heal on this server? I'm thinking about making se/ps there;p
Regards.
ad. 1. So why won;'t you play c4 server? I don't like Hb neither, but going back is going nowhere, cuz ppl want to go foward.
ad. 2 +1
ad. 1. I think you meant that elf CAN'T take d elf sub.
ad. 2 Nonsence... Bcs then making sub for suport class is bullsh1t, if you can't even have 3rd skills. Instead, we will have only more classes like glad/pal etc...
ad. 3 Nonsence2, you can switch even retail, why not to switch normal class|? For ex if im making ne/pal, i don't want to start as pal, so i can remain necro after taking sub...
ad. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.
ad. 5 +1, but they won't remove it.
Imo:
1 Nefr attribtes
2 About mutants there are 2 solutions:
a) no mutants at all|
b) full mutants, without lvl cap
Quote from: k0rina on April 02, 2010, 06:31:47 PM
man mb u want disable whole game ? we can remove buffers too so pvp will be longer ...
ur ideas sux cuz if they follow most of the things u said we will have new bugs/problems
First time I agree with you hahaha.
Quote from: TankerEk on April 02, 2010, 05:57:21 PM
mutants are bad ass , ppls running on ol+necro aint cool xD
Why, cause you never reached one, and they only pwn you?
At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^
QuoteWhy, cause you never reached one, and they only pwn you?
At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^
Never ever played Stucksub server so didnt had chance to get pwned by such class ;P
im low rate retail like playa i was owning up c3 when u was playin the sims 1 ^^ so pliz cut the crap off :)))
from avatar i can see u're 14-15yo old kiddo
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
ad. 1. So why won;'t you play c4 server? I don't like Hb neither, but going back is going nowhere, cuz ppl want to go foward.
All i said was that current sub system is unbalanced for hb...
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
ad. 1. I think you meant that elf CAN'T take d elf sub.
ofc, my mistake.
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
ad. 2 Nonsence... Bcs then making sub for suport class is bullsh1t, if you can't even have 3rd skills. Instead, we will have only more classes like glad/pal etc...
yep, all U will miss from fighter/pp will be pof and some passives. And btw. aren't already "pro" players play chars like this?
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
ad. 3 Nonsence2, you can switch even retail, why not to switch normal class|? For ex if im making ne/pal, i don't want to start as pal, so i can remain necro after taking sub...
if U want ne/pal, start as a ne sub pal and learn pal skill ...
The point was to avoid chars like ol/ee (U can't take ol as retail), se/sk with full tank skills etc. But tbh im not sure if its good idea too.
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
ad. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.
only if he sacrifice he's archer skills, otherwise he wont have pt ud
Quote from: Kerth on April 02, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^
Mby i am wrong but l2 is about teamplay. Not only to make uber he/pal with ic bow, fullbuf in town, and pwn with bot healer on back. Ofc that kind of players would be "nerfed" mostly by that sub system. but tell me how normal pt will suffer from that? Fighter will be still fighting, mages will nuke, healers will heal, buffers will buff. Everything like it should be.
And think about oly too. th/pp wo pof, tyr/wc wo cov chant of protection, es/ee wo pow OR ee/es wo imba (fs mostly) es skills. And more combos will apear. Dunno ee/wk, sr/wc, sorc/ol?
Btw. still w8ing for answer about se and major heal;p
Torn posted in other topic about se heal. Look for it, it's in one of newest topics here (don't remember which one).
You are right at some points, but still I can't agree fully with you.
I admit, stacksub server is heavily unbalanced with hb skills, but I think it can't be helped. From my knoweagle, even offical, which is ofc non sub and have always newest updates is always very unbalanced. Before c4 necro was pwning there. In c4 sps and necro were pwning. In c6 archers took all. After it camaels come out from freaking nowhere, and they were rly strong. At hb Sh became the best.. In one (dunno which) gracia PS became rly good, cuz he was only summoner with normal nuke. And now in Epilogue tanks are pwning all, palladin with full buff and dyna set can pwn 6 ppl solo.
If they can't handle it, I rly don't think we can. So looking from this side, dn is really balanced ^^
And about what you said about support sub etc. If now we have "pro" players, who are making chars like glad/pal he/pal etc, if you cut 3rd skills of sub, they will be just more like this players, and less class/support, belive me.
Quote from: TankerEk on April 02, 2010, 07:23:37 PM
Never ever played Stucksub server so didnt had chance to get pwned by such class ;P
im low rate retail like playa i was owning up c3 when u was playin the sims 1 ^^ so pliz cut the crap off :)))
from avatar i can see u're 14-15yo old kiddo
Dude, insulting is not they way. If i want I could answer in same tone, but it's not my point. And I'm 20, not 15, my avatar is ironic to funniest raper in poland.
Ok, about mutants. Some of them are OP, ye. But those Op ones got (and still getting) nefred, like ty/he or pal/destro.
Others are just normal. For ex. if someone hate SR, but want to play sws, he can make HE/SWS, so he have best char he wanted - archer but not weak SR, and support he wanted, which is SWS. Not a big deal heh?
QuoteDude, insulting is not they way. If i want I could answer in same tone, but it's not my point. And I'm 20, not 15, my avatar is ironic to funniest raper in poland.
Ok, about mutants. Some of them are OP, ye. But those Op ones got (and still getting) nefred, like ty/he or pal/destro.
Others are just normal. For ex. if someone hate SR, but want to play sws, he can make HE/SWS, so he have best char he wanted - archer but not weak SR, and support he wanted, which is SWS. Not a big deal heh?
My bad , i took that cabal/wow shity pvp or go fight against wc/pp/se as a insult
there is lot to do with nerfing mutants and its easy to screw up gameplay
mutants ... why not :D
Quote from: barni on April 02, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
That's not a bug OR a nerf lol. That's called "unintentional balance." ;D
Quote from: TankerEk on April 02, 2010, 09:27:40 PM
My bad , i took that cabal/wow shity pvp or go fight against wc/pp/se as a insult
there is lot to do with nerfing mutants and its easy to screw up gameplay
You're right, but if we want delete everything which is not easy to manage, then we should cut of half of l2 :)
@barni
Read last post in this topic
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,215735.0.html
Quotead. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.
You say, you want to nerf he/pals, cuz they can have big p def/m def(this is the only 1 adventage of this char).
QuoteYou're right, but if we want delete everything which is not easy to manage, then we should cut of half of l2
And after you say that. So you want to nerf the normal chars, but wanna to let make fkin overpowered mutants, lol. This is the nonsence.
As i said before, no mutants=no fkin nerfs, it cant be more easier.
I know, your answer will be: "Take some english lessons.", or smth like this, but if it will be only this, dont post it. I need english only in l2/l2forums, so i realy dont care about it.
Quote from: Toszi on April 02, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
You say, you want to nerf he/pals, cuz they can have big p def/m def(this is the only 1 adventage of this char).
And after you say that. So you want to nerf the normal chars, but wanna to let make fkin overpowered mutants, lol. This is the nonsence.
As i said before, no mutants=no fkin nerfs, it cant be more easier.
I know, your answer will be: "Take some english lessons.", or smth like this, but if it will be only this, dont post it. I need english only in l2/l2forums, so i realy dont care about it.
Ha? You're ninja now, to predict future? :) I told many times before, flame is not my way.
About he/pal, I don't know if u saw that char in action (anyway it was just an example) (by action i mean mass pvp etc, not solo/oly and other bullsh1t), which hit as normal archer (with full boss set, ica bow +++ and dyna set, is kinda crazy dmg) and gread m def / p def / arrows resist even without ud, on 2x ud (1 minute time ammount) he's immortal, so he can (if he's pro player) kill party without healer solo, just qq.
He/pal was just example, same sh1t about for other chars with ud. Dunno if you know, but UD was originally made by NC soft for characters, which make crap dmg in meele, and NONE dmg at long range (tanks ofc), so they can stand high dmg and agro players / mobs on them. Actually here, it's bullsh1t, when you put in his skin character (archer or mage), so he'll have CRAZY DEF and good strike power.
I've explained already why IMO mutants should be saved. They (well, most of them) are not OP, some ppl just like to play for ex. He/Sws instead of Sr/Sws, and if they will be deleted (for sake of those who cry, cuz they were getting "pwned"), that ppl will just loose char they like to play mostly, which is not nice^^
You see, ppl are used to cry (I'm talking about whole population, not personally to anyone) when they loose pvp, and it fallow rule "give me mam, and I'll find a reason". Ppl will always have problem when they loose, like "he is freaking donator, he should be nefred!!!!!", "freaking mutant, how can I win to you????!!!!" etc...
There should be exceptions just for chars like pal/de, which really pwn, so they are nefred then.
Solving problem by deleting everything is like, you have to wash the dishes, but why, lets trash them and you have no problem, ||You have to walk with the dog, why? Better kill the dog, it's more easy. You have to take your GF somewhere, what for, better break with her, it's easier.
It's same thing about mutants.
Quote from: Kerth on April 03, 2010, 12:29:46 PM
Ha? You're ninja now, to predict future? :) I told many times before, flame is not my way.
About he/pal, I don't know if u saw that char in action (anyway it was just an example) (by action i mean mass pvp etc, not solo/oly and other bullsh1t), which hit as normal archer (with full boss set, ica bow +++ and dyna set, is kinda crazy dmg) and gread m def / p def / arrows resist even without ud, on 2x ud (1 minute time ammount) he's immortal, so he can (if he's pro player) kill party without healer solo, just qq.
He/pal was just example, same sh1t about for other chars with ud. Dunno if you know, but UD was originally made by NC soft for characters, which make crap dmg in meele, and NONE dmg at long range (tanks ofc), so they can stand high dmg and agro players / mobs on them. Actually here, it's bullsh1t, when you put in his skin character (archer or mage), so he'll have CRAZY DEF and good strike power.
I've explained already why IMO mutants should be saved. They (well, most of them) are not OP, some ppl just like to play for ex. He/Sws instead of Sr/Sws, and if they will be deleted (for sake of those who cry, cuz they were getting "pwned"), that ppl will just loose char they like to play mostly, which is not nice^^
You see, ppl are used to cry (I'm talking about whole population, not personally to anyone) when they loose pvp, and it fallow rule "give me mam, and I'll find a reason". Ppl will always have problem when they loose, like "he is freaking donator, he should be nefred!!!!!", "freaking mutant, how can I win to you????!!!!" etc...
There should be exceptions just for chars like pal/de, which really pwn, so they are nefred then.
Solving problem by deleting everything is like, you have to wash the dishes, but why, lets trash them and you have no problem, ||You have to walk with the dog, why? Better kill the dog, it's more easy. You have to take your GF somewhere, what for, better break with her, it's easier.
It's same thing about mutants.
That's why , on retail servers , tanks hang around quadrishotting people with their bows?
QuoteHa? You're ninja now, to predict future?
Not only now, always. ;)
QuoteAbout he/pal, I don't know if u saw that char in action (anyway it was just an example) (by action i mean mass pvp etc, not solo/oly and other bullsh1t), which hit as normal archer (with full boss set, ica bow +++ and dyna set, is kinda crazy dmg) and gread m def / p def / arrows resist even without ud, on 2x ud (1 minute time ammount) he's immortal, so he can (if he's pro player) kill party without healer solo, just qq.
Belive me, i know this character, i played with he/pal for a long time, i know what can it make on full buff. But with ud nerfs, it will be a simple hawkeye with deflect arrow, nothing more. HE/Pals dont have so huge crits, like he/wls, or pr/bds, they have only the p def/m def.
But if here we are, a skilled, good equiped player can kill a whole party with many characters. I saw many sps/ee, sps/sws, ne/bp, de/ty, and many other char, who powned a whole party alone... So if you want to nerf uds, cuz of this reasons, then nerf major heal, nerf frenzy, and so on.
Quotebut UD was originally made by NC soft for characters, which make crap dmg in meele, and NONE dmg at long range (tanks ofc
There is your answer:
QuoteThat's why , on retail servers , tanks hang around quadrishotting people with their bows?
Quote"freaking mutant, how can I win to you?!!!!" etc...
Its not only about mutants are overpowered. Its about they will nerf normal characters too, like he/wls, cause of mutants, like pr/wl, sr/wl...
Ya want to compare tank's dmg with bow, without mastery, low crit rate and short range, with HE's dmg?
Quote from: Toszi on April 03, 2010, 01:12:16 PM
Not only now, always. ;)
Belive me, i know this character, i played with he/pal for a long time, i know what can it make on full buff. But with ud nerfs, it will be a simple hawkeye with deflect arrow, nothing more. HE/Pals dont have so huge crits, like he/wls, or pr/bds, they have only the p def/m def.
But if here we are, a skilled, good equiped player can kill a whole party with many characters. I saw many sps/ee, sps/sws, ne/bp, de/ty, and many other char, who powned a whole party alone... So if you want to nerf uds, cuz of this reasons, then nerf major heal, nerf frenzy, and so on.
Its not only about mutants are overpowered. Its about they will nerf normal characters too, like he/wls, cause of mutants, like pr/wl, sr/wl...
There is truth in your words :) But still, it's not a reason to delete all mutants.
Hah and WL class is one big joke. While it's char meant to be a train maker, or party stunner in pvp, most of ppl at DN are using it just to improove their HP/CP ammount and to use Battle Roar / Reneval, with their TH and archers. So mby this is the class, which cause all our problems? :))
imo,mutants are usefull(supports ofc),but at the same time,they are op/bugged or i just dont like it :)
DN was have a normaly sub stucking system i think... like sps/ee,ne/bp,he/pp,ets w/o mutants. Now with mutants its looks like some sh1tty server with multiskills (there is alot of them :) )
So my opinion is: no mutants... im hardly saw ingame a se/bd or se/ps or even a nice char ee/sws...all supports are mutants :(
but nvm,my words are nothing and im maybe wrong,these are only my opinions... cya ;)
QuoteThere is truth in your words But still, it's not a reason to delete all mutants.
Hah and WL class is one big joke. While it's char meant to be a train maker, or party stunner in pvp, most of ppl at DN are using it just to improove their HP/CP ammount and to use Battle Roar / Reneval, with their TH and archers. So mby this is the class, which cause all our problems? )
He/wl is the one of my favorite characters, but not this is my porblem. Im totally vs nerfs.
He or th with wl sub can be a big weapon, if the player can use it. Its not only about big hp/cp, and battle roar. On siege, in little places, like throne room, cresting room, it can win the fight, if he use the stuns. On long range, with war cry, and focus attack, it have the best damage(except pr/wl, if there are mutants...), with nice attack speed, but its a big penalty too, caus with trill fight he/wl is a slow character. And it havent m def.
So its not a joke character, if someone can use it, it can be pwnzor, but not op. Its free frag for mages.
Even while he dont have m def, still 14 k hp + 5 k cp? + reneval which restore hp to full, and battle roar +6 k hp, so totally its over 30 k hp and 5 k cp. Is it a free frag? Not really.
Imo it's little op char, but you see, I'm not posting so it will be nefred or something, cuz I know, that some ppl may just like to play it, so I won't complain against them.
we build a new game here or what?we play the game like it is and the way ppl are usede wont play after a troll ideea
Quote from: barni on April 02, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
Since there was few ppl writing about theirs ideas about subs ill allow myself to share my wisdom with You.
1. Dn sub system was great on C4, with hb skills (like f.e.pt ud) its really hard to balance gameplay.
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
Solution?
1. Allow all classes to sub any class they want with retail restrictions (elf can get d. elf sub, kamaels classes only for kamaels, etc.).
2. Disable 3rd class change to sub class.
3. Don't allow to switch classes (there u have also solved 2nd point). About learning skills from sub: f.e. make special npc.
4. Remove some nerfes like ud nerf.
5. If u remove attributes make ols drain fire element
That changes will bring more balance to oly and normal pvp. sps/ee, necro/pp, tyr/wc will be no longer that strong on oli, outside players will need pp/xx, wc/xx etc chars for high lvl buffs. Also pt ud will be available only to chars with tank as main (archer, dagger, etc. skills will be limited). This system will allow mutants to play oly. And this is big+. I dont see a reason why f.e. sr cant take pp/wk/wl/tyr sub and join oly.
Finally. Se will have mojor heal on this server? I'm thinking about making se/ps there;p
Regards.
you are retarded and your ideas are even more retarded that actually you are Oo if you wanna create your own L2 open your own server.
QuoteEven while he dont have m def, still 14 k hp + 5 k cp? + reneval which restore hp to full, and battle roar +6 k hp, so totally its over 30 k hp and 5 k cp. Is it a free frag? Not really.
You need luck, if you want to use revival. 10% hp is around 1-1,5k hp. With a fullbuffed sh, on the he/wls m def, its 1 hurricane, and there is a big chance for m crit. ;)
Quote from: Toszi on April 04, 2010, 12:39:14 AM
You need luck, if you want to use revival. 10% hp is around 1-1,5k hp. With a fullbuffed sh, on the he/wls m def, its 1 hurricane, and there is a big chance for m crit. ;)
But you can stun oponent and use it.
Btw, I like spam with you, let's spam in another topics too :D joking :P
Quote from: Kerth on April 04, 2010, 08:01:42 PM
But you can stun oponent and use it.
Btw, I like spam with you, let's spam in another topics too :D joking :P
Why not? :D