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Hi ppl.
I need some help in sub my SH.My SH is lvl 79 and iam making retail quest.

I have asked some friends, and i read foruns about bests subs for this char, and i need an opinion.
I want a char good for :

1.Solo Playing (PVE) - Most of time
2. Solo PVP - if i want kill any1
3. Party Playing - if i find a party, or with clan.
4. Some mass PVP - with clan

My options for sub (NOT MUTANT)

SH/SE -> I think is the best, becouse i have EMP+WM+POW and root and Good Heal (Good becouse SH have low HP). I read in forum it sucks, but i analise and i think it is good. I have erase (i can erase summon from an SH/PS), and i can heal myself (major heal its really good). Divine Lore will save some MP.
SH/PS -> I have some questions. I think is good, but....Arcane Agility+Summon Lore is better than SE heal and buff and m.barrier?  I dont think so... i will still have an crappy heal, and PPs, SE's have Erase, so my summon will be deleted. I lack of root (good for PVPs with fighters). What is the diference of casting speed? Casting will be faster than a human Sorcerer (with same buffs)?


Another options i consider.  (Mutants)
Retail Necro and sub SE (Necro/SE): Necro with SE buffs and heal, with necro casting speed, maybe is better than SH/PS?
Retail WK and sub SH (WK/SH): I think will be like SH/PS right?


Subs i dont want:
SH/BD: Simply, becouse SH/SE is better in my opinion.
SH/SK: I think i will not get and great advantage for PVE solo. No heals, no buffs, only def....for me, sux. Sorry.



Yes...some people tell me: Make a bot BD/SE. I dont like to play with bots, i try to dont use it.
I had a sorc/pp in past, and was good. I was allways buffed, and i played solo so nice.
I want a char that, i can play solo (with my own buffs/pots) without problems. Becouse of that, i think SH/SE is the best, but i want your opinion. SE buffs + Acu pot, i think it will be good.

Quote from: sjogos on May 24, 2010, 02:33:35 AM
Hi ppl.
I need some help in sub my SH.My SH is lvl 79 and iam making retail quest.

I have asked some friends, and i read foruns about bests subs for this char, and i need an opinion.
I want a char good for :

1.Solo Playing (PVE) - Most of time
2. Solo PVP - if i want kill any1
3. Party Playing - if i find a party, or with clan.
4. Some mass PVP - with clan

My options for sub (NOT MUTANT)

SH/SE -> I think is the best, becouse i have EMP+WM+POW and root and Good Heal (Good becouse SH have low HP). I read in forum it sucks, but i analise and i think it is good. I have erase (i can erase summon from an SH/PS), and i can heal myself (major heal its really good). Divine Lore will save some MP.
SH/PS -> I have some questions. I think is good, but....Arcane Agility+Summon Lore is better than SE heal and buff and m.barrier?  I dont think so... i will still have an crappy heal, and PPs, SE's have Erase, so my summon will be deleted. I lack of root (good for PVPs with fighters). What is the diference of casting speed? Casting will be faster than a human Sorcerer (with same buffs)?


Another options i consider.  (Mutants)
Retail Necro and sub SE (Necro/SE): Necro with SE buffs and heal, with necro casting speed, maybe is better than SH/PS?
Retail WK and sub SH (WK/SH): I think will be like SH/PS right?


Subs i dont want:
SH/BD: Simply, becouse SH/SE is better in my opinion.
SH/SK: I think i will not get and great advantage for PVE solo. No heals, no buffs, only def....for me, sux. Sorry.



Yes...some people tell me: Make a bot BD/SE. I dont like to play with bots, i try to dont use it.
I had a sorc/pp in past, and was good. I was allways buffed, and i played solo so nice.
I want a char that, i can play solo (with my own buffs/pots) without problems. Becouse of that, i think SH/SE is the best, but i want your opinion. SE buffs + Acu pot, i think it will be good.

If you want to PvP with clan, then SH/SK is the best choice imo. Right, you won't have self heal, but how many clans go to PvP without Bishop? + You will have awesome shield defense, Deflect arrows, cubics and it is pain in the ass to kill char overall.

SH/SE is good for solo farming, but only if you cannot get buffs in any other way. You'll be easy to kill and imo it is the worst sub :P You mentioned few buffs and root as a +. Your Dryad Root will never land in end game PvP, but you still have Throne of Root or w/e it is called. And will you really be happy with subclass that gives you nothing but an average self heal and buffs which you can get from every PP?

SH/BD is just a SH with dances, low lvl of deflect arrow and UD.

Quote from: Ashlynn on May 24, 2010, 03:58:09 AM
If you want to PvP with clan, then SH/SK is the best choice imo. Right, you won't have self heal, but how many clans go to PvP without Bishop? + You will have awesome shield defense, Deflect arrows, cubics and it is pain in the ass to kill char overall.

SH/SE is good for solo farming, but only if you cannot get buffs in any other way. You'll be easy to kill and imo it is the worst sub :P You mentioned few buffs and root as a +. Your Dryad Root will never land in end game PvP, but you still have Throne of Root or w/e it is called. And will you really be happy with subclass that gives you nothing but an average self heal and buffs which you can get from every PP?

SH/BD is just a SH with dances, low lvl of deflect arrow and UD.

Ok, i will forget SE and BD sub for now. I will assume i can get this buffs from anybody.

And u think SH/SK is better than SH/PS?
I know SH/SK will be good against archers and fighters, and maybe against mages too becouse of high m.def i will get (if SK magic defence stacks with anti-magic), and i will have another drain live with less MP cost. UD will be very good, becouse during 30 sec i get very good p.def and m.def. 30 seconds in PVP is alots of time.
But the reuse time of UD its high. I get good shield defence but.....all of this is good with a rob?

SH/PS with TP all dagame will be 50% to my summon, and i will get better casting speed.
I can use TP all time (UD only 30 sec). I have cubics (i dont know if are good/equal as SK cubics).
Summon friend is a good extra skill.

What you think? SH/SK is betther than SH/PS?

SH/PS is the most powerful sub for SH in pvping (solo/mass) - cuz it's have TP 50% , cool un-buffs , un-dieble  shadow ,awesome cubics , plus shadow have heal- it can heal u like bp wich is very good in pvp .

The 2nd chose is SH/SK cuz it's tank, but u have to play in good clan with full support chars.

Quote from: SmokeJaguar on May 24, 2010, 12:25:44 PM
SH/PS is the most powerful sub for SH

bump

SH/BD
good char in oly have pasive skill to mana reg. Ud deflect arrow,medusa,blade strom, i think is the best sub for sh

Quote from: superniania on May 24, 2010, 12:37:33 PM
SH/BD
good char in oly have pasive skill to mana reg. Ud deflect arrow,medusa,blade strom, i think is the best sub for sh

U think BD Dances/Skills is better than SE Heals and buffs in oly?

what is your gamestyle?this is the most important before you choose what to do.if search in forum i guess you wull find many post that answers your question, unless they are deleted.
i have, sh/sk and sh/ps.

i wont spent time to explain about sh/bd, sh/se.they are chars demi support.consider to do such a char and you will be adorable by any party -but for help , not as a main damage dealer.

sh/sk. all good others mentioned, but....robe set.yes roe set on defences of sk it fakin sux.deflect arow only ~25% helpfull compared to heavy set, ud , the same.it does work well if you are with party of experienced players as a second line atack, to elimeinate some chars who manage to come close to you or close to bishop.i didnt enjoyed much this char, mana eater as a hell, and as long as i have experienced, it dies a bit faster than others.

sh/ps.so far the most strong mage in my opinion.a great minus is the mana consumption and a must is lvl 3 buffslot because buffs are never enough for this char.great damage dealer on pvp, end stay alive way too long because of transfer pain and the summon wich can easily reach ~18 k of hp.
i suggest it a s the best combo on sh and general on mage.summon althought is fakin hard to be erased
from others, so far i have never got erased summon in 1 k pvp.foul buffed is a  killin machine.
so far i never had valakas on him, but even without it, a 30-40% crit rate can be arcieved.antharas is a must to save you from archer stun, and baium ofcourse.is an expencive to maintain char. if you want to be on the first line of nukers.dies try +5witch - 5 , +4 con-4 str.must is tatoo witch lvl 4.
the heal of summon is (with bss for beast used) 1,3 k, you can make a macro and save your ass on many circumstances.
stats are in generaly :
buffed with pp/se/bd bufs:
~3k cp
~5k hp
~5k mp
with dnet robe and dynasty weapon 230 matk:
~6k matk (with togle on= 8,5 k)--on foul buff party + toglesi have 12,5 k matk using a dyna mace+7
~1700 casting (with togle on =2250)
~1600 pdef--1800 mdef
so in general, i sugest you do one, im sure you will enjoy it a lot.most importand is to have 8 fingers on the keyboard and 2 on mouse, cause it fakin need a lot of efort to unleash its foul potentials.

I think SH/SK...

I have SK and SH so i think is the best choice.
you forgot about good cubics, especially vampiric. you have also UD final fortress and some passives/acticve skills for your shield.
lightning strike and good drains.
SH with SK sub is much stronger and its more advantage then SE sub. You can make SE/BD for support (the best support for nuker).

Yes Sk sub +1 deflect arrow , UD , cubic etc..

SH/SE, SH/PS or Necro/SE

i really like Necro/SE cuz i have sh/se and sh/sk and they run out of mana really really fast. In c4 was ok but now its really stupid. Necro/SE will have also a lot of debuffs and TP, really nice char. It wont be the biggest dmg dealer but will have at least mana for some time.

Why se isnt a good sub u naabzords? U Think on robe u will get  same bonus as on heavy? Its not like that for me ps or se are best combo, BD is good for archer imo.

sh/ps

Quote from: Chad on May 25, 2010, 08:27:30 PM
Why se isnt a good sub u naabzords? U Think on robe u will get  same bonus as on heavy? Its not like that for me ps or se are best combo, BD is good for archer imo.

Yes, we know very good SH/SE :)
since GMs implemented "gracia POWi" and major heal  SE is the best buffer, for pt of course
for mass pvp OL is the best

Quote from: palladine on May 25, 2010, 11:17:31 AM
I think SH/SK...

I have SK and SH so i think is the best choice.
you forgot about good cubics, especially vampiric. you have also UD final fortress and some passives/acticve skills for your shield.
lightning strike and good drains.
SH with SK sub is much stronger and its more advantage then SE sub. You can make SE/BD for support (the best support for nuker).

Lightning strike, yes! Freezing strike and cubics (NOT vampiric though cause it sucks sideways) and great shield defence.

SH/SK would be my choice, not as strong as SH/PS..... but atleast it's playable without recharge-bots and full pt.

Quote from: kidicarus on May 26, 2010, 10:34:12 AM
Lightning strike, yes! Freezing strike and cubics (NOT vampiric though cause it sucks sideways) and great shield defence.

SH/SK would be my choice, not as strong as SH/PS..... but atleast it's playable without recharge-bots and full pt.

SH is the mage with lowest  mana regen, so any sub  u make on it u will need a recharger or just be wise with ur mana pots, with one pp/bd or even a pp or wc without sub u can farm very easy :p the combo with sk is nice for shield defence and lighting strike but, on robe is note same bonus than on hvy for sof, ud, vengance. SE have nice heals and almost good buffs ( like i sayd with a pp or wc behind u can farm easy), same as if u make PS with stunning cubic u can kill a lot of ppls there taht sh1t land very often even with 2k  more m defence or zaken :p, so, sh/se nice heal and buffs, sh/ps transfer pain, cubics, mage bane for mages :P warrior bane for fighters ( remove haste,ww empo and acu) and shadow heals u...

Quote from: Chad on May 26, 2010, 07:43:34 PM
SH is the mage with lowest  mana regen, so any sub  u make on it u will need a recharger or just be wise with ur mana pots, with one pp/bd or even a pp or wc without sub u can farm very easy :p the combo with sk is nice for shield defence and lighting strike but, on robe is note same bonus than on hvy for sof, ud, vengance. SE have nice heals and almost good buffs ( like i sayd with a pp or wc behind u can farm easy), same as if u make PS with stunning cubic u can kill a lot of ppls there taht sh1t land very often even with 2k  more m defence or zaken :p, so, sh/se nice heal and buffs, sh/ps transfer pain, cubics, mage bane for mages :P warrior bane for fighters ( remove haste,ww empo and acu) and shadow heals u...

True, they nerfed UD Veng and SoF. But you still have awesome shield defence combined with deflect arrow. And vengance used to be 100% in robe, did they fix that?
Ohh and you got stun and aggro. Great for 1 vs 1 PvP's.

Bottom line is, nightshade even with 18k HP is about 2-3 arrows, and then you're just a tap away from death.
If you have like TOP gear, SH/PS could be great, but imo it drains to much MP.

servitor barrier!
period.

Quote from: kidicarus on May 27, 2010, 08:23:25 AM
True, they nerfed UD Veng and SoF. But you still have awesome shield defence combined with deflect arrow. And vengance used to be 100% in robe, did they fix that?
Ohh and you got stun and aggro. Great for 1 vs 1 PvP's.

Bottom line is, nightshade even with 18k HP is about 2-3 arrows, and then you're just a tap away from death.
If you have like TOP gear, SH/PS could be great, but imo it drains to much MP.

i mean deflect arrow dont give same bonus as on hvy.

Quote from: Chad on May 27, 2010, 04:01:13 PM
i mean deflect arrow dont give same bonus as on hvy.

Is that a new update I didn't hear of? Because on nightmare it always has, and as a result the damage diffrence for arrows on mage/tanks vs real heavy tanks is pretty much 0.

Last time I checked Deflect arrow lvl 4 works same on Light and Heavy users, effect doesn't change.

Deflect arrow reduces dmg from arrows. Its fixed %. So it reduces for same rate. But with robe base dmg is much much higher than i heavy. So hits are still biger

Quote from: Fildonka on May 27, 2010, 06:09:50 PM
Deflect arrow reduces dmg from arrows. Its fixed %. So it reduces for same rate. But with robe base dmg is much much higher than i heavy. So hits are still biger

It's not much higher. There's no problem getting to 2k p.def on a mage and combine that with 100% shield defence rate on 360degrees the diffrence kinda goes up in smoke.

Wk/Sh....advantages and disadvantages?  look for them yourself :P

Quote from: ANITNEGRA on May 27, 2010, 06:28:07 PM
Wk/Sh....advantages and disadvantages?  look for them yourself :P

advantages: arcane disruption, kat the cat = recharge, wariar bane.
disadvantage : mass surender to fire instead to wind, useless for SH.
If you switch WK to main = less m.attk more cast. More CP/HP