Lets share some knowledge.
As far as my testing goes, the first obvious replacement for a DHA+HP, namely the Demon splinters +focus has a lot of side-problems.
I gain 500 crit rate on selfbuff with full HP, but neither rage, nor Frenzy/zealot work properly on fists when HP goes low. I find my orc in the ridiculous situation of having 500 crit rate with fists and dealing on frenzy/zealot/rage 2-3 times less damage on criticals than normal hits with DHA. Thus, even though i win some attack speed from the posibility of using fist fury, and a lot of crit rate, the fact i cant use main destroyer skills with fists make my tyr/des act like an unsubbed character: either destroyer or tyrant, based on the weapon of choice.
Since no other char in Dnet has this problem (of being unable to use the main skills he gains from subclassing, from both classes in the same time, but either one or the other), i think the nerf on tt/de should be reconsidered, because it is quite unfair.
Besides that, if our dear GM wont take back the nerf, what solutions do you see? i thought of HD+focus, since that way i can use the bonus from rage/frenzy/zealot and i'll have a decent 200 crit rate on bison. True, the p.atk on frenzy will be less than on DHA, i must lose +HP for +focus and the sword criticals arent as painful as blunt ones. Still, is there any better option for tt/de?
Thx for sharing your knowledge and for Track/Kain, i hope you'll reconsider this nerf, it is insane for a subbed character to not be able to use both classes in the same time.
Quote from: WindPhoenix on September 09, 2010, 11:21:29 PM
Lets share some knowledge.
As far as my testing goes, the first obvious replacement for a DHA+HP, namely the Demon splinters +focus has a lot of side-problems.
I gain 500 crit rate on selfbuff with full HP, but neither rage, nor Frenzy/zealot work properly on fists when HP goes low. I find my orc in the ridiculous situation of having 500 crit rate with fists and dealing on frenzy/zealot/rage 2-3 times less damage on criticals than normal hits with DHA. Thus, even though i win some attack speed from the posibility of using fist fury, and a lot of crit rate, the fact i cant use main destroyer skills with fists make my tyr/des act like an unsubbed character: either destroyer or tyrant, based on the weapon of choice.
Since no other char in Dnet has this problem (of being unable to use the main skills he gains from subclassing, from both classes in the same time, but either one or the other), i think the nerf on tt/de should be reconsidered, because it is quite unfair.
Besides that, if our dear GM wont take back the nerf, what solutions do you see? i thought of HD+focus, since that way i can use the bonus from rage/frenzy/zealot and i'll have a decent 200 crit rate on bison. True, the p.atk on frenzy will be less than on DHA, i must lose +HP for +focus and the sword criticals arent as painful as blunt ones. Still, is there any better option for tt/de?
Thx for sharing your knowledge and for Track/Kain, i hope you'll reconsider this nerf, it is insane for a subbed character to not be able to use both classes in the same time.
use vampirics and kill with blunt still . it just take longer to kill it . killed galaxia with 1 orc today in like 6-8 minut
Some1 tried dyna crusher+rsk focus? how much crit rate can get with it?
Quote from: xxGEBELSxx on September 10, 2010, 09:46:48 AM
Some1 tried dyna crusher+rsk focus? how much crit rate can get with it?
Dual hand blunt + risk focus should be a good idea, since frenzy works the best with blunts and the crits from blunts are the hardest.
bump
QuoteI gain 500 crit rate on selfbuff with full HP
Lol.......Want more.....? No such character , with 500 crt rate.Your hit crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit...crit..norm..crit..crit.....etc.
Who else can kill RB solo.Weep not, be unjust . If everything is as it should
Critical 146 , not 500.
Quote from: xxGEBELSxx on September 10, 2010, 09:46:48 AM
Some1 tried dyna crusher+rsk focus? how much crit rate can get with it?
that was my first dynasty weapon wich i bought for my self - so, this weapon still give only 65% from real bonus
and hope so soon to be fixed
Quote from: chavi on September 10, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Lol.......Want more.....? No such character , with 500 crt rate.Your hit crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit..crit...crit..norm..crit..crit.....etc.
Who else can kill RB solo.Weep not, be unjust . If everything is as it should Critical 146 , not 500.
are u kidding me? even with 500 crit rate, i am hitting for 2k on criticals with fists (selfbuff testing, but compare to 7-8k normal hits on frenzy, with blunt with same base p.atk)
Think before posting.
GM must either undo this nerf or make frenzy/rage/zealot work 100% with fists.
Quote from: dusaka on September 10, 2010, 02:02:13 PM
that was my first dynasty weapon wich i bought for my self - so, this weapon still give only 65% from real bonus
and hope so soon to be fixed
just how much crit rate it really adds pl0x?
I from duals hiting less dmg than from 1h sword/blunt
Quote from: Wizjoner on September 10, 2010, 08:05:38 PM
I from duals hiting less dmg than from 1h sword/blunt
dynasty crusher is two-handed blunt or one-handed blunt?
Quote from: WindPhoenix on September 10, 2010, 10:39:35 PM
dynasty crusher is two-handed blunt or one-handed blunt?
I rlly dont know but it should 2h
its 2h blunt but have bad animation and its look like 1h blunt xD
I think that it's true what the poster says... it has no sense to have a subclassed char that cannot use their classes skills.... and also the ppl who says that can kill raid bosses( like galaxia) is because they have dnet sets and all rb jewels or dha+++++ ... and the only way i had to make money was with a HD+HASTE+3, now with that i cant kill even rb in rift... so... if gm fix nerf, i'll be happy, if not... well..i dont care... but i had to sell all my des/tyr weapon to a VERY low price... so this was a little unfair for non-donator players (non-donator and non-full time players). just my opinion
Quote from: WindPhoenix on September 10, 2010, 07:50:59 PM
GM must either undo this nerf or make frenzy/rage/zealot work 100% with fists.
and u wanna also them workin till 100% hp?
Quote from: Piccy on September 12, 2010, 07:59:53 AM
and u wanna also them workin till 100% hp?
now, now, there is no need for sarcasm :)
Quote from: Piccy on September 12, 2010, 07:59:53 AM
and u wanna also them workin till 100% hp?
and gutz and frenzy working together in same time like in c3 DE/OL was ftw :D
All nerf has done is taken away some ability of lesser players to farm for better gear. Top orcs will still be able to kill but it is the lower orcs that will be hit the hardest by the nerf >:( >:(
Yea that's true. If i could hold bumpa with IC+6 now i hit the grownd in less than 30 sec while a friend in DNET has no problem. True that he has anthy and i don't but still ..... lvl 84-85 tyr/de what could do to get 100 coins..... farm for 5 years and than orc will get even more nerfed. What's the point in having orc. At galaxy we struggled with 2 orc for 15-20 min and a group of archers full buffed PK us and killed RB in 1 min (it had half HP or a little under). Same happened at typhoon .... 2 daggers +1 archer and WC/Bp as support killed the RB in less than 3 min while orc strugles at 6-10 min. WHAT'S THE POINT OF DE CLASS? Maybe DE/WK has a point now ........
well tyr/destro is still overpowered because zealot stacks with guts, frenzy,and bison should work with fists only.
bison shouldn't work with wepons other then fists. If u want that work still, some other classes should be empowered. Like th/wl i think focus power, and chance should work with pole as active like rage and should stack. Because th wl can also be some training type char, not only tyrant/destro. Also tyrant/pal, destro pal ai should stack with zealot, frenzy. ai should work under 30 % the best like frenzy and zealot too. Its only example.
Quote from: Zippey on September 12, 2010, 01:51:37 PM
All nerf has done is taken away some ability of lesser players to farm for better gear. Top orcs will still be able to kill but it is the lower orcs that will be hit the hardest by the nerf >:( >:(
+1
plus the fact that now Ty/De gains nothing from being subbed, because the only advantages of having a dnet subbed char is to play 2 classes in one character; but now if you choose fists you play only as ty, and if you choose blunt or sword you play only as de, with no sharing of skills and bonuses
I'm not playing for a long time on NM .... don't know exactly how mutans work but now ..... DE/WK could work i think beacause blessing of the queen (i think) gives crit rate and with frenzy+zealot+ crusher +rsk.focus could be a decent char at RB or trains..... JUST AN IDEA .... blame me if u want i don't care ... maybe i learn something new :D
Quote from: moonbreaker on September 13, 2010, 07:51:00 AM
well tyr/destro is still overpowered because zealot stacks with guts, frenzy,and bison should work with fists only.
bison shouldn't work with wepons other then fists. If u want that work still, some other classes should be empowered. Like th/wl i think focus power, and chance should work with pole as active like rage and should stack. Because th wl can also be some training type char, not only tyrant/destro. Also tyrant/pal, destro pal ai should stack with zealot, frenzy. ai should work under 30 % the best like frenzy and zealot too. Its only example.
LMFAO
You tried playing a lower level TY/DE now?? Char may aswell be deleted, as posted above idea of substack is to combine skills of 2 classes. Now with TY/DE most of them don't stack. I repeat all nerf has done is sh1t on players like me whose only chance of getting better gear was to farm with TY/DE and now is made much harder and in some cases impossible. I am all for stopping Bison in Oly cos of OP problems but all will happen is another char combo will come along that will kill RB fast and then what QQ and nerf that char?? Im sure another solution to solo RB could have been thought up and used, reflect damage on Orc maybe. anyways Bison now doesn't work properly on fist, HP needs to be 40% or lower to use why? Bison description does not say needs HP to be 40% or lower so it has been introduced because of QQ. Same is with Cancel on SpS QQ because my char gets some buff removed and I can't kill you in 2 shots. Chars will NEVER be balanced because sub stack was NEVER designed in this game, All that happens is you nerf one OP char and another come along. If you want balanced server delete all sub stack, but then whats the point of playing here???
Everyone wants new players on server but this nerf does not help them at all, TY/DE was a good way for them to get somewhere......
stop QQ :P repair RB's drops ^^ , all is fine :P
Quoteare u kidding me? even with 500 crit rate, i am hitting for 2k on criticals with fists (selfbuff testing, but compare to 7-8k normal hits on frenzy, with blunt with same base p.atk)
Think before posting.
GM must either undo this nerf or make frenzy/rage/zealot work 100% with fists.
QuoteFrenzy Lv 1 Increases user's P. Atk. by 30% for 1 minutes 30 seconds. Additionally increases P. Atk. by 54% when using a sword, blunt weapon or spear. When using a two-handed sword or blunt weapon, increases accuracy by 2 and P. Atk. by 25%. Can be used when HP is under 30%.
none none
Frenzy Lv 2 Increases user's P. Atk. by 30% for 1 minutes 30 seconds. Additionally increases P. Atk. by 92% when using a sword, blunt weapon or spear. When using a two-handed sword or blunt weapon, increases accuracy by 4 and P. Atk. by 20%. Can be used when HP is under 30%.
none none
Frenzy Lv 3 Increases user's P. Atk. by 50% for 1 minutes 30 seconds. Additionally increases P. Atk. by 131% when using a sword, blunt weapon or spear. When using a two-handed sword or blunt weapon, increases accuracy by 6 and P. Atk. by 16%. Can be used when HP is under 30%.
none none
I do not see to grow crit. dmg.
Quote from: chavi on September 16, 2010, 01:03:26 PM
I do not see to grow crit. dmg.
Let me put it straight. on self buff i have around 10k P.atk on frenzy with DHA and like 2500 with DS. and DS and DHA have the same base p.atk. got it now?