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Archive => Infinite Nightmare 20x server => Obsolete => General => Topic started by: Gideon on November 22, 2011, 06:19:02 PM

Title: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gideon on November 22, 2011, 06:19:02 PM
I wanna discuss with all players about this last update related to Final Secret skill.

Some info to help on ur discussion:

Final Secret Lv.1 - Physical Skill
For 30 seconds, you call upon your hidden reserves to increase your skills power and ordinary attack damage by 30% during PvP.

How it works: it adds 30% on NORMAL attacks and 30% of power on skills DURING PVP

This complains came mostly from 15x players (also some from 20x), so we made a little fix when u using Bow, Dagger or Dual Dagger, so this affect combos like: HE/GL, HE/WL, TH/GL and TH/WL. Other classes that can use this skill isn't affected (TY and Doombringer).

I already discussed few ideas with Track about it, but we also wanna hear what u all have to say.

We appreciate if people could post screens with damage, but remember to show status and atr (now atr makes a huge difference on pvp).
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Alex on November 22, 2011, 06:21:54 PM
I seriously doubt that any of those class combos are somewhat overpowered. Mostly they are balanced or maybe even weak.

Complaints about final secret on archers came from analphabet dragon GMs who would get 17k even from a dwarf with a bow. I can assure not even 20% of dragon population shares the same thoughts on that skill as them.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 22, 2011, 06:31:23 PM
They are not overpowered, they should be pure DD, but they even with final secret working as it should (30%) they hit WELL BUFFED players low regarding the PATCK this kind of chars have.
As i said in other topic, feel free to test my char ig, prolly in 20x server its the stronger (equip/skills +++)
Other thing, people complain about this chars being OP but they dont say that this char have 0 resists/defense.
ps: he/glad and he/wl u can count how many we have in server so this nerf be so important for balance of server...
he/glad i know only 4 atm, me, kapi, sonial and one from aod (dont remember is name)
ps1:he/glad already had a stupid nerf on Duelist Spirit (thanks to Dragon GM)
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:37:20 PM
He/glad is overpowered. Dont forget he got war cry lvl 2(wl got lvl 1) and duelist spirit which give pvp damage + final sicret damage of this class too big. For example mage with sub on pp on full buff is  geting 2 k from normal archers and from he/glad 4 k(about this damage i just give example coz i am not sure if he/glad not hit such subs stronger). Other example: i was on my friend pr/bd only on pp and bd buff i get from sr\sws 2.2 crit and from he/glad 4.5 k or 4.7 i forgot and i was using vesper hvy set+6 full atri.

Ps Zedu
What nerf u got before? That duelist spirit take 10 % patt? Cmon . It still give pvp damage which is more important.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Shadow21 on November 22, 2011, 06:43:51 PM
imo combo like he/glad not overpowered. if i buffed good, not canceled to bones max damage on me is around 1.2-1.3k. and my char not tank. sometimes ofc damage bigger but in these cases mostly my fault i dont have some important buff or canceled to bones. imo mostly this cry about overpowered combos like glad/he come from ppl with 50 attr in set and which dont know how buff themselves.

p.s. better lets discuss about resists against cancel. arcane protection and chant of spirit dont work. dont belive lets make test.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Alex on November 22, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:37:20 PM
He/glad is overpowered. Dont forget he got war cry lvl 2(wl got lvl 1) and duelist spirit which give pvp damage + final sicret damage of this class too big. For example mage with sub on pp on full buff is  geting 2 k from normal archers and from he/glad 4 k(about this damage i just give example coz i am not sure if he/glad not hit such subs stronger). Other example: i was on my friend pr/bd only on pp and bd buff i get from sr\sws 2.2 crit and from he/glad 4.5 k or 4.7 i forgot and i was using vesper hvy set+6 full atri.

Ps Zedu
What nerf u got before? That duelist spirit take 10 % patt? Cmon . It still give pvp damage which is more important.

Comparing support/archer sub with semi-defensive abilities to pure DD sub with 0 defense and 0 support. Are you dragon gm?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: violetpl on November 22, 2011, 06:55:21 PM
ofc zord when pp/xx dont know what buff use so qq moar
ofc zadu hit me 4k-6k but when i dont have song/cc/cov ect
on full buff he hit me max 1,1- 1,5k and im not tank and no full resist in set
last giran siege on pp buff(only pp buff - no pof)  i hit some bp/pal from ws for 6k so dunno if some ppl dont know what buff use or they are rly low skiled tards and know only how  cry to GM

btw wtf all pp resist give 40 - 60 atry resis/songs/dance to:P
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: Alex on November 22, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
Comparing support/archer sub with semi-defensive abilities to pure DD sub with 0 defense and 0 support. Are you dragon gm?

pr/bd got deflect arrow right? Point is that he/glad even w/o final secret makes 2 x bigger damage then other archers class. Like i said sr/sws with top items and enchant of skills(Immaculate) making 2x lower damage then Zedu. U still saying this class will lose so much that not have final secret?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:57:01 PM
pr/bd got deflect arrow right? Point is that he/glad even w/o final secret makes 2 x bigger damage then other archers class. Like i said sr/sws with top items and enchant of skills(Immaculate) making 2x lower damage then Zedu. U still saying this class will lose so much that not have final secret?
whats your point comparing sr/sws with he/glad? you missed any pr, they supose make all same dmg maybe?

lol at you
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: ylim on November 22, 2011, 07:23:51 PM
nothing wrong with he/glad ofc its stronger then other archer combos, but also bp/pal stronger then bp/pp so lets start nerf bp/pal too ?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 22, 2011, 07:24:48 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 22, 2011, 06:31:23 PM
They are not overpowered, they should be pure DD, but they even with final secret working as it should (30%) they hit WELL BUFFED players low regarding the PATCK this kind of chars have.
As i said in other topic, feel free to test my char ig, prolly in 20x server its the stronger (equip/skills +++)
Other thing, people complain about this chars being OP but they dont say that this char have 0 resists/defense.
ps: he/glad and he/wl u can count how many we have in server so this nerf be so important for balance of server...
he/glad i know only 4 atm, me, kapi, sonial and one from aod (dont remember is name)
ps1:he/glad already had a stupid nerf on Duelist Spirit (thanks to Dragon GM)
Completly agree, he/glad is not op, maybe ppl forgot, that char got rly low m def, already duelist spirit was nerfed. Don't forget final secret is only 30 s skill, almost like enlightment( ofc enlightment got more reuse time). If some1 is buffed badly, he would get huge dmg from any other char not only he/gl.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Alex on November 22, 2011, 07:46:12 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:57:01 PM
pr/bd got deflect arrow right? Point is that he/glad even w/o final secret makes 2 x bigger damage then other archers class. Like i said sr/sws with top items and enchant of skills(Immaculate) making 2x lower damage then Zedu. U still saying this class will lose so much that not have final secret?

Zedu has top items as well and how do you know he didnt have final secret? It has quite short re-use. Also HE has way more STR than SR. Roughly he/glad has 60% more p.atk than normal HE. That's all, that paper char has nothing else, no defense and no utility.

When people will learn that damage isnt everything.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: PainMaster on November 22, 2011, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:57:01 PM
pr/bd got deflect arrow right? Point is that he/glad even w/o final secret makes 2 x bigger damage then other archers class. Like i said sr/sws with top items and enchant of skills(Immaculate) making 2x lower damage then Zedu. U still saying this class will lose so much that not have final secret?

loed at this ...  :D 

imo this classes are not OE , dont nerf them !!!!   

znd mr.zord maby lets start nerf bish/tank classes   > deflect arrow /majesty  etc   in robe  WTF !!!  working those skill in robe set its joke for me
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 08:06:48 PM
Quote from: PainMaster on November 22, 2011, 08:05:25 PM
loed at this ...  :D 

imo this classes are not OE , dont nerf them !!!!   

znd mr.zord maby lets start nerf bish/tank classes   > deflect arrow /majesty  etc   in robe  WTF !!!  working those skill in robe set its joke for me
actually its fail copy of Katsu, so no wonder if he gets such a hits and later cry on forum to nerf such a class xd
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
Quote from: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 08:06:48 PM
actually its fail copy of Katsu, so no wonder if he gets such a hits and later cry on forum to nerf such a class xd

I not cry here about damage from he/glad on me( he hit me 1 k max) just i know how other classes for example with sub on pp get damage. Sure i am copy of Katsu xD, say noob pr/sk who crit me 400-500. U think all bp/pal make their chars coz of Katsu? xDDD
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
I not cry here about damage from he/glad on me( he hit me 1 k max) just i know how other classes for example with sub on pp get damage. Sure i am copy of Katsu xD, say noob pr/sk who crit me 400-500. U think all bp/pal make their chars coz of Katsu? xDDD
so cuz he hit other char bit stronger means he deserves nerf? so in your opinion all classes who hit stronger not tank class deserve nerf oO


and yes, i keep this what i said in previous post :D
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
so cuz he hit other char bit stronger means he deserves nerf? so in your opinion all classes who hit stronger not tank class deserve nerf oO


and yes, i keep this what i said in previous post :D

Ok np fail copy of Darhed. XD
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gonzal on November 22, 2011, 09:39:10 PM
IMO u can choose between he/pal (more defense and u dont have huge atk power) or he/glad (less p def/mdef but better p atk)
This sub stack cmon the fun part is making the best combo to do what u want to do. In this tank chronicle only few real warriors left...
So if u nerf it u making ppl to rerole to tank more than before... or quit playing.
Im mage/mage few of my class left... i got from those warrior archers huge dmg but i know that im not a tank so its suppose to get that dmg.
Now i want to GM remove any kind of summon nerf u got from other chronicles to make pets stronger :D
cheers
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: PainMaster on November 22, 2011, 10:02:46 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
I not cry here about damage from he/glad on me( he hit me 1 k max) just i know how other classes for example with sub on pp get damage. Sure i am copy of Katsu xD, say noob pr/sk who crit me 400-500. U think all bp/pal make their chars coz of Katsu? xDDD

ok nerf he/glad  to make 1k on  mage/pp  ,  on  mage/tanke will be 250 ,    archer  wtf !!!! ;) ;)

imao , nerf deflect in robe  at least  -50% effect , same with majesty.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:37:20 PM
He/glad is overpowered. Dont forget he got war cry lvl 2(wl got lvl 1) and duelist spirit which give pvp damage + final sicret damage of this class too big. For example mage with sub on pp on full buff is  geting 2 k from normal archers and from he/glad 4 k(about this damage i just give example coz i am not sure if he/glad not hit such subs stronger). Other example: i was on my friend pr/bd only on pp and bd buff i get from sr\sws 2.2 crit and from he/glad 4.5 k or 4.7 i forgot and i was using vesper hvy set+6 full atri.

Ps Zedu
What nerf u got before? That duelist spirit take 10 % patt? Cmon . It still give pvp damage which is more important.

Talking about War Cry lvl 2? u forget in the moment i use duelist spirit i lose 10% patk? meaning i have War Cry lvl 2 aka lvl1   :-\
About  pp/xx taking 4k or more!! lol well the ones i hit or are tanks or u are dreaming. (dont confude char skills with lack of atribute in set)
pr/bd with pp buffs getting 4,5k, wtf u expected? lol The archer combo with bigger patk making 1k on a pr/bd with PP buffs!!  :D the deflect arrow skill wont save your ass...
About the ps: it still gives pvp damage but my patk its almost like a HE/PAL or a PR/SK and should i remember u what my char have as defense skills?

Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 06:57:01 PM
pr/bd got deflect arrow right? Point is that he/glad even w/o final secret makes 2 x bigger damage then other archers class. Like i said sr/sws with top items and enchant of skills(Immaculate) making 2x lower damage then Zedu. U still saying this class will lose so much that not have final secret?

Now u compare a sr/sws with a he/glad  ;D
For info:
Elf (Fighter) 36 STR
Human (Fighter) 40 STR
Both can put +5 str making HE having 45 STR and ELF 41 STR
I use Heavy vesper set, the sr/sws u mention dont, should i post here the stats wich set gives?
HE have a passive skill called Critical Power lvl2
SR dont have any...
Only in this u can see that the dmg will be diferent, but dont forget one thing very important, u dont give a fck what atribute each have, atribute system atm makes more diference in dmg than anything, dont forget other thing, u and even me dont know how each players sets his char, can be for dex, str, or even to con.

Resuming: this combos HE/GLAD HE/WL are DD nothing more, BUT are DD`s in the moment u go figth without FULL BUFF and a good atributed set, in the moment u lose defensive buffs or songs or wtv u will notice high dmg from this chars.
Its a useless char if u use it without top items, its just unplayable and u will lick the floor faster than u imagine (Hi Kapi  ;D ), even with top items u eat like 3k or 4k from other archers like your friend pr/bd (Hi Tyia .\. )
Nerfing final secret and the already nerf on duelist only will kill (MORE) this chars.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
I not cry here about damage from he/glad on me( he hit me 1 k max) just i know how other classes for example with sub on pp get damage. Sure i am copy of Katsu xD, say noob pr/sk who crit me 400-500. U think all bp/pal make their chars coz of Katsu? xDDD

Before Duelist Spirit NERF i hitted Alex having 10k patk for 400 critical, and guess what he didnt need to activate any UD...
I hit Katsu nowdays for 700 critical, and we are talking about a HE/GLAD with TOP items and skills +++++++
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Triuferkkk on November 22, 2011, 10:22:48 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
Talking about War Cry lvl 2? u forget in the moment i use duelist spirit i lose 10% patk? meaning i have War Cry lvl 2 aka lvl1   :-\
About  pp/xx taking 4k or more!! lol well the ones i hit or are tanks or u are dreaming. (dont confude char skills with lack of atribute in set)
pr/bd with pp buffs getting 4,5k, wtf u expected? lol The archer combo with bigger patk making 1k on a pr/bd with PP buffs!!  :D the deflect arrow skill wont save your ass...
About the ps: it still gives pvp damage but my patk its almost like a HE/PAL or a PR/SK and should i remember u what my char have as defense skills?

Now u compare a sr/sws with a he/glad  ;D
For info:
Elf (Fighter) 36 STR
Human (Fighter) 40 STR
Both can put +5 str making HE having 45 STR and ELF 41 STR
I use Heavy vesper set, the sr/sws u mention dont, should i post here the stats wich set gives?
HE have a passive skill called Critical Power lvl2
SR dont have any...
Only in this u can see that the dmg will be diferent, but dont forget one thing very important, u dont give a fck what atribute each have, atribute system atm makes more diference in dmg than anything, dont forget other thing, u and even me dont know how each players sets his char, can be for dex, str, or even to con.

Resuming: this combos HE/GLAD HE/WL are DD nothing more, BUT are DD`s in the moment u go figth without FULL BUFF and a good atributed set, in the moment u lose defensive buffs or songs or wtv u will notice high dmg from this chars.
Its a useless char if u use it without top items, its just unplayable and u will lick the floor faster than u imagine (Hi Kapi  ;D ), even with top items u eat like 3k or 4k from other archers like your friend pr/bd (Hi Tyia .\. )
Nerfing final secret and the already nerf on duelist only will kill (MORE) this chars.
aff you could write it later, i wanted see more how hes comparing yours and Immaculate's char xD i started to have fun xD
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 09:09:19 PM
Ok np fail copy of Darhed. XD
and whos that oO
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: PainMaster on November 22, 2011, 10:25:58 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Before Duelist Spirit NERF i hitted Alex having 10k patk for 400 critical, and guess what he didnt need to activate any UD...
I hit Katsu nowdays for 700 critical, and we are talking about a HE/GLAD with TOP items and skills +++++++



lets look now on mages dmg,  im he/pal  i geting  normal hits 600-1200dmg     cryt  2500-3500    .

NERF ARCHERS !!!!
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 10:31:42 PM
I understand that u hiting Alex 400(our Archers hit him similar) and Katsu 700(similiar u hit me) but i just say maybe ur char is not overpowerd but for example as ur film on youtube showing ppl getting even 8 k damage and its on siege u think they dont have full buff? What i wanna say is that ur combo(he/glad) is overpowered against some classes like sorc/pp necro/pp th/pp or other classes which dont have at least deflect arrow lvl 2. I know white elf got lower str and more dex etc. and prolly Viana use dyes +dex(coz she fast xD) but 2x more damage is little too much dont u think?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 10:31:42 PM
I understand that u hiting Alex 400(our Archers hit him similar) and Katsu 700(similiar u hit me) but i just say maybe ur char is not overpowerd but for example as ur film on youtube showing ppl getting even 8 k damage and its on siege u think they dont have full buff? What i wanna say is that ur combo(he/glad) is overpowered against some classes like sorc/pp necro/pp th/pp or other classes which dont have at least deflect arrow lvl 2. I know white elf got lower str and more dex etc. and prolly Viana use dyes +dex(coz she fast xD) but 2x more damage is little too much dont u think?

Zord seems u dont know how your ally/clan members go to siege   ;D
I see people after dying run directly to castle, they use some self buffs and run to castle, what u expect? low dmg?
Its like i said, in the moment those non tank or not with half tank skills lose their important defense buffs they gonna eat lots of dmg...
Ask vinny (th/pp) whats my dmg on him?
Get buffed, get a nice atributed set and the almigthy HE/GLAD (17k hits char) gonna be embarassed...
Feel free to test it IG, GM aswell... just dont talk from what some random people says, or based on my pov movie during a siege lol
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: BRexoo7 on November 23, 2011, 07:58:30 AM
Quote from: zenice on November 22, 2011, 10:17:05 PM

About the ps: it still gives pvp damage but my patk its almost like a HE/PAL or a PR/SK  



Your pattack status is "only" with few "k" higher (~ 3k, maybe more-->same gear/buffs/+5STR chars) than a PR...
We can test it if you want.

PS this part with pattack won't help you  :), will just make the "nerf ideea" legit. He/gl's damage is higher, maybe too high compared to other archer's combos. Looking at skills... it's somehow normal, but some "adjustments" can be made (final form cut seems fair enough).
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Alex on November 23, 2011, 08:27:52 AM
Cant stop laughing how clueless people who have no idea about game skills and classes are trying to get one of rather mediocre archer subs nerfed.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Evolution on November 23, 2011, 08:37:01 AM
just leave that fvcking final secret (final circlet  :D) working on bow's like before... bcz sub he/glad will be usseless and rly all will reroll on tanks  :-X   WTB PR/SK  ??? QQ
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: FeelmyBow on November 23, 2011, 10:39:36 AM
Useless nerf, you just took away 1 of the few things wich made those classes worth playing. Like peoples said before, we already got tard m.def and now you wanna take our offensive buffs aswell wich last 30s?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 10:42:04 AM
Quote from: BRexoo7 on November 23, 2011, 07:58:30 AM

Your pattack status is "only" with few "k" higher (~ 3k, maybe more-->same gear/buffs/+5STR chars) than a PR...
We can test it if you want.

PS this part with pattack won't help you  :), will just make the "nerf ideea" legit. He/gl's damage is higher, maybe too high compared to other archer's combos. Looking at skills... it's somehow normal, but some "adjustments" can be made (final form cut seems fair enough).

I can say that with full buff i get 8.8k patk, i heard that HE/PAL can get 8k, i wonder how much a PR can get...
Oh im talking on pvp status, cuz if i go farm i dont use duelist spirit (nerfed!! -10%patk)
But seems u know a lot about HE/GLAD...
Well idd HE/GLAD its OP, to kill mobs!!!!  ;D
PS: NERF Eye of Slayer its OP vs mobs!! "Increases P. Atk. toward monsters, magic creatures, Giants and Dragons by 30% for 10 minutes."
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 10:45:43 AM
Quote from: zenice on November 23, 2011, 10:42:04 AM
I can say that with full buff i get 8.8k patk, i heard that HE/PAL can get 8k, i wonder how much a PR can get...
Oh im talking on pvp status, cuz if i go farm i dont use duelist spirit (nerfed!! -10%patk)
But seems u know a lot about HE/GLAD...
Well idd HE/GLAD its OP, to kill mobs!!!!  ;D
PS: NERF Eye of Slayer its OP vs mobs!! "Increases P. Atk. toward monsters, magic creatures, Giants and Dragons by 30% for 10 minutes."
Pr/bd on pvp buff 9,1k p atack, nothin more to add
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 10:56:40 AM
Quote from: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 10:45:43 AM
Pr/bd on pvp buff 9,1k p atack, nothin more to add

Yep, HE/GLAD still OP rigth zord?

For info and thanks to Duelist Spirit NERF wich takes 10% patk.
War Cry Lv.1 - Physical Skill
Increases P. Atk. by 20% for 1 minute.

War Cry Lv.2 - Physical Skill
Increases P. Atk. by 25% for 1 minute.

HE/GLAD have lv.2 skill but with the nerf it gets even lower than lvl.1 War Cry...
Just for info... Still 17k hits!!!! LOL!
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: qwertyzxc on November 23, 2011, 12:15:15 PM
drama ....  fix bison qq i want kill all in 10 sec not 15 anymore xD
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: qwertyzxc on November 23, 2011, 12:15:15 PM
drama ....  fix bison qq i want kill all in 10 sec not 15 anymore xD

its not drama, u didnt see me opening topics like u do, i simply reply a GM topic about a skill that was deleted from a char i use and know well.
But since u now can win in oly or farm rb easly u are a happy man, the day u get fcked this forum will notice that ^^
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gideon on November 23, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
If possible i'd like some screens of HE/GL on Final Secret.

Full buffed, show the stats (especially cause of ATT system) and damage u make, i will need also screens from target side, to show me the buffs, stats and ATT it have.

If u don't wanna show all ur stats u can send me on PM.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 12:53:32 PM
Quote from: Gideon on November 23, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
If possible i'd like some screens of HE/GL on Final Secret.

Full buffed, show the stats (especially cause of ATT system) and damage u make, i will need also screens from target side, to show me the buffs, stats and ATT it have.

If u don't wanna show all ur stats u can send me on PM.

I tested it last nigth and Final secret wasnt givin any bonus.
I can try again tonigth when i get home and i will send u screens on pm, unless the other 3 HE/GLAD users on this server do that before...
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 23, 2011, 10:56:40 AM
Yep, HE/GLAD still OP rigth zord?

For info and thanks to Duelist Spirit NERF wich takes 10% patk.
War Cry Lv.1 - Physical Skill
Increases P. Atk. by 20% for 1 minute.

War Cry Lv.2 - Physical Skill
Increases P. Atk. by 25% for 1 minute.

HE/GLAD have lv.2 skill but with the nerf it gets even lower than lvl.1 War Cry...
Just for info... Still 17k hits!!!! LOL!


P att. is not all and Chryzo u talking about pr/bd with ica bow+16. He/glad imo same p att with war cry lvl 2 as pr/bd. But he/glad got duelist spirit which give pvp bonus(yes -10 % patt) and also final secret. So still he/glad is strongest archer on this server. Dont forget we have here subs and need be some balance. Anyway is true some ppl go pvp w/o proper buff and getting big damage from classes like urs. Why no one play bp/pp ? This class even with top items and high enchanted skills on full buff would be 2-3 hits max for he/glad.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
still pr/bd would kill easy he/glad, with simlar eq ofc.
Let's cut tanks a bit, escpecially mage/tank coz it's sick when majesty and delfect arrow gives same effect with robe and heavy.
and don't forget final secret is only once per 2 min 30 , so let's nerf everything in this game.

Gideon check pm
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MIRAA on November 23, 2011, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
still pr/bd would kill easy he/glad, with simlar eq ofc.
Let's cut tanks a bit, escpecially mage/tank coz it's sick when majesty and delfect arrow gives same effect with robe and heavy.
and don't forget final secret is only once per 2 min 30 , so let's nerf everything in this game.

Gideon check pm

Want to talk about Duelist Spirit?

"Increases dualsword weapon Atk. Spd. by 12% for 1 minute and ordinary/skill attack damage by 10% during PvP."

And I wonder why you use it with a bow, when it says "dualsword weapon".
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 03:16:10 PM
dualsword for a speed and it's works properly, in 2nd part of sentence there is no info it shouldn't work on other weapons.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gideon on November 23, 2011, 03:30:17 PM
Quote from: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
still pr/bd would kill easy he/glad, with simlar eq ofc.
Let's cut tanks a bit, escpecially mage/tank coz it's sick when majesty and delfect arrow gives same effect with robe and heavy.
and don't forget final secret is only once per 2 min 30 , so let's nerf everything in this game.

Gideon check pm

Majesty and Deflect Arrow gives the same bonus, BUT when u play a Mage/Tank u will have less P. Def (so less bonus from Majesty) and will take more damage from bows if u compare to a Fighter/Tank.

Btw about the screens i can't see Tyia's ATT protections correclty, if u could make it again pls. Also there's 2 buffs that decrease the Critical Damage, try to remake it with those buffs if possible.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gideon on November 23, 2011, 03:32:09 PM
Quote from: MIRAA on November 23, 2011, 03:13:22 PM
Want to talk about Duelist Spirit?

"Increases dualsword weapon Atk. Spd. by 12% for 1 minute and ordinary/skill attack damage by 10% during PvP."

And I wonder why you use it with a bow, when it says "dualsword weapon".

The Attack Speed bonus only works with Dual Swords, but the PVP bonus works with all kind of weapons (even with bow), but it gives -10% on P. Attack when u using a bow.

This -10% was made some time ago to balance this class a bit.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 01:13:16 PM
P att. is not all and Chryzo u talking about pr/bd with ica bow+16. He/glad imo same p att with war cry lvl 2 as pr/bd. But he/glad got duelist spirit which give pvp bonus(yes -10 % patt) and also final secret. So still he/glad is strongest archer on this server. Dont forget we have here subs and need be some balance. Anyway is true some ppl go pvp w/o proper buff and getting big damage from classes like urs. Why no one play bp/pp ? This class even with top items and high enchanted skills on full buff would be 2-3 hits max for he/glad.

So lets nerf pr/bd, cuz this class have more patk than he/glad, have mdef passive and deflect arrow, oh and have a skill called: Dead Eye Lv.8 - Physical Skill
For 2 minutes, when using a bow, increases one's own Accuracy by 3, P. Atk. by 199, and Critical Damage by 20%. Decreases Atk. Spd. by 10%. Requires a bow.
While a HE/GLAD have nothing of this, even duelist spirit is NERFED for "balance"... btw that pr/bd have ic+16 i have ic+15... HUGE diference idd!!
So the HE/GLAD should reroll to pr/bd and lets just kill this human figther combo.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 03:45:41 PM
Quote from: MIRAA on November 23, 2011, 03:13:22 PM
Want to talk about Duelist Spirit?

"Increases dualsword weapon Atk. Spd. by 12% for 1 minute and ordinary/skill attack damage by 10% during PvP."

And I wonder why you use it with a bow, when it says "dualsword weapon".

Duelist Spirit Lv.2 - Physical Skill
Increases dualsword weapon Atk. Spd. by 12% for 1 minute and ordinary/skill attack damage by 10% during PvP.

Dont forget that the "," and the "/" exist for something...

Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: raymax on November 23, 2011, 03:47:02 PM
dead eye decrease atack speed 20% not 10
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Gideon on November 23, 2011, 03:32:09 PM
The Attack Speed bonus only works with Dual Swords, but the PVP bonus works with all kind of weapons (even with bow), but it gives -10% on P. Attack when u using a bow.

This -10% was made some time ago to balance this class a bit.

That -10% was cuz GM on Dragon serrver was butthurt, nothing more.
In the end this will stay like this cuz many cryers who got no idea what is pvp flood GM´s pm box, i dont know why i even reply on this topic.
Its obvious this its a bullsh1t nerf, this on final secret and the one on duelist spirit, but wtv there are only 4 he/glad on server, this server was completly unbalanced cuz of this 4  ;D
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: Zaled on November 23, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
still pr/bd would kill easy he/glad, with simlar eq ofc.
Let's cut tanks a bit, escpecially mage/tank coz it's sick when majesty and delfect arrow gives same effect with robe and heavy.
and don't forget final secret is only once per 2 min 30 , so let's nerf everything in this game.

Gideon check pm

Ye cut bp/tanks and there will be no ppl playing bishops coz rest subs for pp,sorc etc will die on max 2 hits from archers and daggers. Only good bp sub before GF(when now servitor barrier have long reuse) was bp/wk coz on full buff u had perma pet cele. Also bp/necro can stay longer but ppl playing bp/necro are mostly dd not true healers. I am just saying that nerf of final secret for he/glad will be not such big nerf as u think coz still this class even w/o final secret hit harder then all others archers class.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 04:00:46 PM
I am just saying that nerf of final secret for he/glad will be not such big nerf as u think coz still this class even w/o final secret hit harder then all others archers class.

no it dont... wtf u have your pr/bd friend char, check one and check other... its that so hard? stop saying BS...
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: flamingAwe on November 23, 2011, 04:28:08 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 04:00:46 PM
Ye cut bp/tanks and there will be no ppl playing bishops coz rest subs for pp,sorc etc will die on max 2 hits from archers and daggers. Only good bp sub before GF(when now servitor barrier have long reuse) was bp/wk coz on full buff u had perma pet cele. Also bp/necro can stay longer but ppl playing bp/necro are mostly dd not true healers. I am just saying that nerf of final secret for he/glad will be not such big nerf as u think coz still this class even w/o final secret hit harder then all others archers class.

just laughing at your posts in this topic....
just some infos: as mage/mage i did not die in 2-3 hits(not counting unbuffed or unequiped, as once presed macro to remove armor in pvp xD), max 3k crits from holy attr bows, for which i don't have resist except buff (after recent updates all will have 6 attr resist)
bp/xx can use transfer pain talisman and summon scroll, that makes him like mentioned by you bp/nc
bp/wk has summon that lives much better than nc summon even w/o UD/cele, also 2-3 min reuse on cele is not so bad....
WTF happened with you that you start support useless nerfs???
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
Quote from: flamingAwe on November 23, 2011, 04:28:08 PM
just laughing at your posts in this topic....
just some infos: as mage/mage i did not die in 2-3 hits(not counting unbuffed or unequiped, as once presed macro to remove armor in pvp xD), max 3k crits from holy attr bows, for which i don't have resist except buff (after recent updates all will have 6 attr resist)
bp/xx can use transfer pain talisman and summon scroll, that makes him like mentioned by you bp/nc
bp/wk has summon that lives much better than nc summon even w/o UD/cele, also 2-3 min reuse on cele is not so bad....
WTF happened with you that you start support useless nerfs???

We talk here about damage from specific class : he/glad. Not that some sr/sws or he/wk or some archer like this hit u 3 k coz u not have holy resist. Tell me what damage u was getting from zedu or coldbane(they dont have holy atri imo). I am sure it was crits more then 3 k so summaring this u got 9.5 k hp +2 k cp so u are 3 hits for such class. Anyway as i said nerfing final secret will not nerf this class so much coz still will hit strong thx to war cry and duelist spirit pvp bonus. I was testing on sorc/pp in vesper robe all parts 240, hiting me was he/wl with top items,good bow on full buff with final secret. Crits was around 2.2 k. So add to his 5 % more patt and duelist spirit bonus from he/glad and u will see damage.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 23, 2011, 06:10:17 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
We talk here about damage from specific class : he/glad. Not that some sr/sws or he/wk or some archer like this hit u 3 k coz u not have holy resist. Tell me what damage u was getting from zedu or coldbane(they dont have holy atri imo). I am sure it was crits more then 3 k so summaring this u got 9.5 k hp +2 k cp so u are 3 hits for such class. Anyway as i said nerfing final secret will not nerf this class so much coz still will hit strong thx to war cry and duelist spirit pvp bonus. I was testing on sorc/pp in vesper robe all parts 240, hiting me was he/wl with top items,good bow on full buff with final secret. Crits was around 2.2 k. So add to his 5 % more patt and duelist spirit bonus from he/glad and u will see damage.

You know that 240 atribute in armor vs 450 in weapon its 210 diference??
you know HOW much this diference is in dmg?? you dont clearly.
You better ask for atribute dmg curve fix than for a char NERF.
Im starting to believe u are another butthurt hater, like Alex asked, "Are you Dragon GM??"
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 23, 2011, 06:10:17 PM
You know that 240 atribute in armor vs 450 in weapon its 210 diference??
you know HOW much this diference is in dmg?? you dont clearly.
You better ask for atribute dmg curve fix than for a char NERF.
Im starting to believe u are another butthurt hater, like Alex asked, "Are you Dragon GM??"


Now is 540 vs 240 but look on this how is on official in GF. U have there 300 in weapon against 120 in armor. 120 on official is 40 % atri resist. And here it is 44.4 %.
300-100%
120-x =  120 x 100=1200/300= 40 %(official)
540-100%
240-x = 240 x 100=2400/540= 44 %(dn)
This is offtopic why we have now 540 in weapon not 450 xD.

Ps.
Power of he/glad is not final secret as i wrote before. So imo nerfing this will not change nothing.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Evolution on November 23, 2011, 07:17:59 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Now is 540 vs 240 but look on this how is on official in GF. U have there 300 in weapon against 120 in armor. 120 on official is 40 % atri resist. And here it is 44.4 %.
300-100%
120-x =  120 x 100=1200/300= 40 %(official)
540-100%
240-x = 240 x 100=2400/540= 44 %(dn)
This is offtopic why we have now 540 in weapon not 450 xD.

Ps.
Power of he/glad is not final secret as i wrote before. So imo nerfing this will not change nothing.


so why they touch this skill ffs,  ? why all compare Dragon with NM no1 qq about that combos on my server... so why the fvck u make this update ? gtfo with that.. look better on daggers/tanks mages/tanks lolz
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: flamingAwe on November 23, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 06:33:08 PM
Now is 540 vs 240 but look on this how is on official in GF. U have there 300 in weapon against 120 in armor. 120 on official is 40 % atri resist. And here it is 44.4 %.
300-100%
120-x =  120 x 100=1200/300= 40 %(official)
540-100%
240-x = 240 x 100=2400/540= 44 %(dn)
This is offtopic why we have now 540 in weapon not 450 xD.

actually you write total bullshit
check Pre-Freya Attribute System Breakpoints Graph
http://www.lineage2universe.com/articles/lineage2-attribute-system
and stop talking about numbers of attribute  def and atack, start thinking about difference =ATCK-DEF and it's relativity to breakpoints
now here you have 540 in weapon and in armor
240 armor +20(PoE) +15 dnet cloak +40 (song)+40 (ele prot) minimum + buffs
so in most cases  difference is counted as 150 only (150-299 is same)
actually dunno full how they changed buffs, but heard possible to have over 500 defence, thus atacker has bonus of 40DIF (arounf 10% compaired to nonatr damage)
DNET curve can be different in case of break points, but calculations are same
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: seboulba on November 23, 2011, 07:22:37 PM
Quote from: Evolution on November 23, 2011, 07:17:59 PM
so why they touch this skill ffs,  ? why all compare Dragon with NM no1 qq about that combos on my server... so why the fvck u make this update ? gtfo with that.. look better on daggers/tanks mages/tanks lolz

mhhh why ? :)
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 07:30:07 PM
Quote from: flamingAwe on November 23, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
actually you write total bullshit
check Pre-Freya Attribute System Breakpoints Graph
http://www.lineage2universe.com/articles/lineage2-attribute-system
and stop talking about numbers of attribute  def and atack, start thinking about difference =ATCK-DEF and it's relativity to breakpoints
now here you have 540 in weapon and in armor
240 armor +20(PoE) +15 dnet cloak +40 (song)+40 (ele prot) minimum + buffs
so in most cases  difference is counted as 150 only (150-299 is same)
actually dunno full how they changed buffs, but heard possible to have over 500 defence, thus atacker has bonus of 40DIF (arounf 10% compaired to nonatr damage)
DNET curve can be different in case of break points, but calculations are same

Is pure mathematic. What i wrote. I just wrote how is here and on offi coz ppl cry why make 540 atri. U think i dont know about buffs or cloaks etc, u forgot wrote here clan skills btw ;p. 240 is 44 % from 540, 120 is 40 % from 300. So they make it to be similiar to official.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Shadow21 on November 23, 2011, 08:58:15 PM
just made test with he/glad.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5939/shot00103a.png

important buffs missed: cc, prot of elemental, eye of paagrio.

also his attr my weakpoint for now. waiting for sh1rt fix;p

ofc items not so powerfull like zedu got but still not 6-10k damage xD and as i said attr and buffs made some difference in this test too, with them crit rate and damage wont be "so big" oO

as i said before if ppl have no idea about buffs and attr even 20k damage possible xD

screen with my stats at this test sent to gideon in pm.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: qwertyzxc on November 23, 2011, 09:27:04 PM
Quote from: zenice on November 23, 2011, 12:45:08 PM
its not drama, u didnt see me opening topics like u do, i simply reply a GM topic about a skill that was deleted from a char i use and know well.
But since u now can win in oly or farm rb easly u are a happy man, the day u get fcked this forum will notice that ^^

lol they nerfing orcs since c4 so what are you talking :D
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: PvtStuka on November 23, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 22, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
U think all bp/pal make their chars coz of Katsu? xDDD

Not everyone, but you are for sure, since you rerolled from bp/wk when you saw katsu in action.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Naku on November 23, 2011, 11:48:08 PM
Quote from: seboulba on November 23, 2011, 07:22:37 PM
mhhh why ? :)

Id say take a look on daggers on heavy + shield. on 1 vs 1 if there is a char that is killer is that one. yeah yeah flame me.
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: violetpl on November 24, 2011, 09:34:19 AM
sry zord but : przestan pierdlic o atrybucie nawet w 10% nie ma nic wspólnego z offem
kurwa is not he/gl or wl fault that ppl dont know how buff
cya only on siege
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: flamingAwe on November 24, 2011, 09:51:21 AM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 23, 2011, 07:30:07 PM
Is pure mathematic. What i wrote. I just wrote how is here and on offi coz ppl cry why make 540 atri. U think i dont know about buffs or cloaks etc, u forgot wrote here clan skills btw ;p. 240 is 44 % from 540, 120 is 40 % from 300. So they make it to be similiar to official.

pure maths.. right.
but there is not such thing as divide in attr calculation formulas
there is NO 300 / 120 or 540 / 240...
there is only substrction
like 300-120 and 540-240
value from THIS calculations is not a bonus to damage itself
this value is just an offset to bonus  vector (2 weeks ago vector was like on off 1..75, 150,300 as breakpoints for adding damage, and 450 which doesn't exist on off, and here worth only for mobs)
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: MegaZord on November 24, 2011, 09:53:47 AM
Quote from: violetpl on November 24, 2011, 09:34:19 AM
sry zord but : przestan pierdlic o atrybucie nawet w 10% nie ma nic wspólnego z offem
kurwa is not he/gl or wl fault that ppl dont know how buff
cya only on siege

Widac matematyka nie byla twoja mocna strona w szkole. :P
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 24, 2011, 11:37:21 AM
so what was the sense of this nerf ?
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: violetpl on November 24, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
Quote from: MegaZord on November 24, 2011, 09:53:47 AM
Widac matematyka nie byla twoja mocna strona w szkole. :P

y ofc nie zdałem matury


Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: QuadCore on November 24, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: Alex on November 22, 2011, 06:21:54 PM
I seriously doubt that any of those class combos are somewhat overpowered. Mostly they are balanced or maybe even weak.

Complaints about final secret on archers came from analphabet dragon GMs who would get 17k even from a dwarf with a bow. I can assure not even 20% of dragon population shares the same thoughts on that skill as them.
+1, don't kill the fun of stack subclass server
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: zenice on November 24, 2011, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gideon on November 22, 2011, 06:19:02 PM

Final Secret Lv.1 - Physical Skill
For 30 seconds, you call upon your hidden reserves to increase your skills power and ordinary attack damage by 30% during PvP.

How it works: it adds 30% on NORMAL attacks and 30% of power on skills DURING PVP


btw only today i noticed your description of this skill and its funny when u say "adds 30% on NORMAL attacks, lol?
Ordinary attack damage means all physical attack dmg, normal or not.
Physical is a damage type inflicted by all melee attacks and ranged attacks.
Or else you would have to change then all skills and all SA on weapons who talk about this ordinary/general attack f.e.
Chant vampire
SA with HP drain
Seal of Blockade
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Zaled on November 26, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
up
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gonzal on November 26, 2011, 04:10:00 PM
nerf all but let the sps pwn  ;D
Title: Re: Discussion: Final Secret
Post by: Gideon on November 29, 2011, 05:19:43 PM
Sry for the delay i had some problems IRL.

I already checked the screens and made some tests/checks.

I will talk with Track this week about Final Secret.

Tks for all who helped with screens and posts on this topic.