I'm nervous when I see Dark Avenger 74 lvl who exp for using Banish Seraph on angels with a probability of over 50% , where I playing a Paladin and using Banish unded with a probability of 10-15%.
PLZ explain that to me GMs
y same we try...
We try and, bishops ee paladin - 3 rd skill magic lvl 76 - land rate mobs 73 lvl cata or it 76 lvl= 15-20%. Tried on 100 mobs. And banish Seraphin tank skill magic lvl 74 100 mobs â€" angels toi 10 11 woa - land rate 55-65%.
And its fair ? for us ? change it to same.
yeah at toi 10 sk/da can farm easy lethal is almost 1/1 with bp/ee/pala u need ur whole mana bar to lethal 1 mob kinda fair i guess +1
Its Dragon...
sux man, so many friends ee ,bp play solo or when cp afk/offline they do nothing...and they want leave server like 2 clans here do.
apparently the GMs does not depend on the number of people on the server coz they do nothing about this. but we will see
And what about reuse? Is it the same as TU?
yes, its the same, seeing something like that I dont want to play
How funny that no one have read when i explained the link between TU/BU and Banish Seraph.
let me refresh it for you:
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,280453.msg2428092.html#msg2428092
now replace the word Turn Undead with Banish Undead.
EXACTLY SAME.
now for Banish Seraph is a bit more tricky... you have to replace the word Turn Undead with Banish Seraph and all the BASE chances becomes 50% (instead of 30%)
Yes, this is it.
The level penality and all other things remains totally unchanged between TU/BU/BS.
Let me make it easy readable for you:
1) TU/BU/BS are basically the same skill
2) TU/BU targets only undead
3) BS targets only holy creatures: angels
4) TU/BU, without enchants, have maximum 30% lethal rate
5) BS, without enchants, have maximum 50% lethal rate
everything else (the math formulas too) is same for both of them.
So many accounts created just to post on TU/BS topics ;D
Well i cant say that indeed, even if the current Banish Seraph is ALSO following the official base % of retail INTERLUDE, like we did for TU/BU, is pretty much unfair.
In fact, on official, Banish Seraph was then later changed in HELLBOUND to be same as Turn Undead/Banish Undead (and it makes sense).
you can read the success rate extraction from here:
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=450
For this reason only, I will accept the complain and on next update Banish Seraph will follow the same progression of Turn Undead and Banish Undead. (that is readable also from the link)
Basically Banish Seraph will use the HELLBOUND progression, that is exactly the same progression of Turn Undead and Banish Undead: 30% base lethal chance, +1% every enchant "chance".
EDIT:
I just noticed that in the old IL we was running we had already this correction of BS=TU=BU.
We are simply reverting back to it.
Quote from: =drake= on February 16, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
Well i cant say that indeed, even if the current Banish Seraph is ALSO following the official base % of retail INTERLUDE, like we did for TU/BU, is pretty much unfair.
In fact, on official, Banish Seraph was then later changed in Gracia Final to be same as Turn Undead/Banish Undead (and it makes sense).
you can read the success rate extraction from here:
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=450
For this reason only, I will accept the complain and on next update Banish Seraph will follow the same progression of Turn Undead and Banish Undead. (that is readable also from the link)
Basically Banish Seraph will use the GF progression, that is exactly the same progression of Turn Undead and Banish Undead: 30% base lethal chance, +1% every enchant "chance".
are you fcking kidding me?
tanks are already useless cause aggression doesnt work, now you want to lower OFFICIAL % cause someone is crying "not fair not fair"?
we are in IL, not in GF.
Quote from: Garn. on February 16, 2014, 06:19:03 PM
are you fcking kidding me?
tanks are already useless cause aggression doesnt work, now you want to lower OFFICIAL % cause someone is crying "not fair not fair"?
we are in IL, not in GF.
I additionally re-checked all scripts and all backups since i code on L2.
Current Banish Seraph IS screwed and not official at all.
All what i said is bullshit and this skill IS really bugged, will be fixed at first reboot giving wrong % and i seriously have no idea why we have such values active right now.
Banish Seraph will match Turn Undead correctly as of IL/HB/GF and any chronicle since Banish Seraph exists (this skill never changed since his creation)
Can you 1st fix Agression on tank than cut this skill? Now keeping RB = 10% chance.
Quote from: Falatko on February 17, 2014, 08:12:41 AM
yeah one skill is "buged" so lets leave whole clean maaaaaaaan :D so good cool story
We lost at least 5 GMs because of this bugged skill!
Quote from: Falatko on February 17, 2014, 08:18:49 AM
oh no, you should choose new and reopen server
At least!
Well, they can cry a river but if for example we had (the highly useful) Punch of Doom delivering (by mistake) 10 million physical damage and then after 20 days from server start we notice that something is not correct and we fix it: of course all the "Doom's Punchers" will cryariver... but that doesnt means we have to leave it bugged.
The skill will be fixed to be correct as my infos related to IL landing rates (and matching my IL scripts of 2007-2008).
Is well known that i hardly follow the forum requests or pools, if something is changed/fixed is because really requires it.
About who complains for aggression: we are already doing all the tests around it and it will be fixed whatever have to be fixed IF it will require to be fixed.
If something does not require a fix: we dont fix it.
in RB pt i was and there was tank, than RB was on him for like 20-30% time. RB change aggression even on healers or WC and reaggression on tank was only possible when WC, healer go die, and even than not always it goes back on tank. Same with destros. Normally Rb should be on char who make biggest dmg=biggest aggression lvl. yday i was in RB pt 61+ where we had 3 destros and support. And RB changed his target from destros on SE who only recharged BP. So if recharge make more aggression lvl than frenzy, than this is not normal.
Quote from: hebdzik on February 17, 2014, 10:21:56 AM
in RB pt i was and there was tank, than RB was on him for like 20-30% time. RB change aggression even on healers or WC and reaggression on tank was only possible when WC, healer go die, and even than not always it goes back on tank. Same with destros. Normally Rb should be on char who make biggest dmg=biggest aggression lvl. yday i was in RB pt 61+ where we had 3 destros and support. And RB changed his target from destros on SE who only recharged BP. So if recharge make more aggression lvl than frenzy, than this is not normal.
It makes much sense instead what happened to you.
Aggression of course gives big help to mantain aggro but is also correct that the following conditions makes you lose the aggro if not managed carefully:
-someone in party overhealing/overcharging/overbuffing/overanything
-having just 1 healer/buffer doing the job that should be splitted on two (or more) for sake of aggro management
-DPS classes outdamaging without proper control
-DPS classes not using the proper skills for aggro mitigation. (And in case you need more of those skills: there are augmentations specifically for this. i know NO ONE uses them but they exists for this specific purpose).
-you can always enchant your skills for extra aggro. Take note that if your aggro skills are underleveled/underenchanted compared to your party DPS skills, then you could easily lose aggro because your skills are subpar compared to your party.
-in case you followed the steps over but still no success: you can take the augmentation for extra aggro (exists specifically for this)
those elements are basic and a party must work in raven and not spam all possible skills just because they are not in reuse timer/cooldown.
well yes but according to this what you write all tank sux until they make 76 and 3rd prof.
Find me char lvl 61 who have "-you can always enchant your skills for extra aggro."
or "And in case you need more of those skills: there are augmentations specifically for this"
from moment i play here i dropped 3 lvl (1 mid 52, 1 high 52 and 1 high 49 from orfen and i wasn't able to pick it up).
This what you wroted say tans are usless in pt until 76 3rd prof, or they are usefull only in pt in which they are top lvl char with top skills and on one in pt will: "-someone in party overhealing/overcharging/overbuffing/overanything"
next waht you wrote "-having just 1 healer/buffer doing the job that should be splitted on two (or more) for sake of aggro management" is crazy, because pt has only 9 slot and you cant have 2x heal, 2x bp, 2x bd, 2x, sws, 2x wc, 2x dd to split job on two
Quote from: hebdzik on February 17, 2014, 11:32:48 AM
well yes but according to this what you write all tank sux until they make 76 and 3rd prof.
Find me char lvl 61 who have "-you can always enchant your skills for extra aggro."
or "And in case you need more of those skills: there are augmentations specifically for this"
from moment i play here i dropped 3 lvl (1 mid 52, 1 high 52 and 1 high 49 from orfen and i wasn't able to pick it up).
This what you wroted say tans are usless in pt until 76 3rd prof, or they are usefull only in pt in which they are top lvl char with top skills and on one in pt will: "-someone in party overhealing/overcharging/overbuffing/overanything"
next waht you wrote "-having just 1 healer/buffer doing the job that should be splitted on two (or more) for sake of aggro management" is crazy, because pt has only 9 slot and you cant have 2x heal, 2x bp, 2x bd, 2x, sws, 2x wc, 2x dd to split job on two
exactly. but in every server i played, the more ppl QQ about something, the more they obtain it.
i should start QQing too then ::)
and to all those ee-bp QQers, gratz. you just made SK and DA even more useless than before.
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 12:02:12 PM
exactly. but in every server i played, the more ppl QQ about something, the more they obtain it.
i should start QQing too then ::)
and to all those ee-bp QQers, gratz. you just made SK and DA even more useless than before.
Doesnt work that way.
If you think i changed for the epic small QQ you are deeply wrong.
It got changed because i saw myself was not as should be.
Anyway i wrote many ways to avoid aggro, makes no sense to point all over 1 of those options (i even wrote them more or less in order of importance and easyness)
plz do not nerf banish seraphin. playing tank it's hard and with nerfed lethals it's usuless.
imo it's a good lethal rete for tanks and ee/bish and i hope that's wasn't changed.dunno why ppl complain about that.
edit: just checked on toi 10 in angels and
10x and more fails in a row. before restart server was max 3-4x fails in a row. so u nerfed it. plz fix it. and put just50% .
Quote from: jimterr on February 17, 2014, 12:35:24 PM
plz do not nerf banish seraphin. playing tank it's hard and with nerfed lethals it's usuless.
imo it's a good lethal rete for tanks and ee/bish and i hope that's wasn't changed.dunno why ppl complain about that.
edit: just checked on toi 10 in angels and
10x and more fails in a row. before restart server was max 3-4x fails in a row. so u nerfed it. plz fix it. and put just50% .
welcome to dnet.
Regardless whatever you say, the change have been made because the skill was not as should.
For better landing rate, follow the same guidelines of Turn Undead/Banish Undead.
I can copypasta all infos i have but i understand is meaningless to explain it as for you is for pure personal interest.
I guess if by mistake we give to every player the //killnpc command, there would be complains in case we later remove it ;)
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 01:00:45 PM
I guess if by mistake we give to every player the //killnpc command, there would be complains in case we later remove it ;)
that would be awesome dude!!!11 :D:D:D
j.k ofc ::)
I say nerf all tanks/healers. They should never be able to farm easy :P.
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 01:00:45 PM
I guess if by mistake we give to every player the //killnpc command, there would be complains in case we later remove it ;)
Prefer //setparam ;D
so, for you 16 (!) tries on a mob is normal uh? (lvl 74 mob, skill 10, lvl 76 char)
before it took from 1 to 6-7 tries, now it's just totally useless cause u run out of mana with 2 mobs. gratz again.
Level up your skills, i can say just that!
Anyway land rate on those conditions is 30% (magic level = monster level)
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 01:13:08 PM
Level up your skills, i can say just that!
Anyway land rate on those conditions is 30% (magic level = monster level)
drake, ma va a cagare và ....
almeno non dire stronzate nel changelog "adjusted to IL" che tutto è tranne che IL. ora è semplicemente inutile, anche per quei pochi che son partiti da SK o DA che nessuno vuole in party per exp. prova a farti un tank di 60 e andare nell'unico posto dove può expare e cioè vos, e poi mi sai dire....cosa fa la gente sotto il 76? rerolla?
Lets remove TU/BU and end this comedy.
Quote from: Denzo on February 17, 2014, 01:26:20 PM
Lets remove TU/BU and end this comedy.
Why? TU is working perfectly, and BU will do as well now.
yeah TU is not so bad. lvl 75 mobs with skill + 4 its like 1/3 now its the same like Banish seraphin. Great job. Now its fair.
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on February 17, 2014, 01:29:44 PM
Why? TU is working perfectly, and BU will do as well now.
ofc, 16 tries on a 74 lvl mob (skill 10 and lvl 76). it's working perfectly with IL skill effect, indeed.
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 01:54:31 PM
ofc, 16 tries on a 74 lvl mob (skill 10 and lvl 76). it's working perfectly with IL skill effect, indeed.
You got extremely unlucky or you was targeting a mob with lethal protection (tell me mob and/or link me from monster finder)
Land rate with skill lv10 against a monster lv74 (without protections) is 1/3
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
You got extremely unlucky or you was targeting a mob with lethal protection (tell me mob and/or link me from monster finder)
Land rate with skill lv10 against a monster lv74 (without protections) is 1/3
it isn't. been exping there since some days and it was 1/3 before, now not even 1/10.
woa, disciple of protection
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on February 17, 2014, 01:29:44 PM
Why? TU is working perfectly, and BU will do as well now.
still comedy in the air, either way, every single class can xp by party, so dont necessary for lvling. if its working right op, if not ppls coming and complaining here endless.. arent u bored?
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 02:04:24 PM
it isn't. been exping there since some days and it was 1/3 before, now not even 1/10.
woa, disciple of protection
Wrong again.
It was 1/2 at lv10 (in fact was 1/2 regardless of the level) and was 3/4 by just doing one single +1 on enchant.
This was not how was in IL both on Official/Dragon/Infinity/Nightmare/Shadow/Dreadnaught/etc and even on L2J.
posting my scripts i think is meaningless but i can link you the L2J db:
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=450
Read: Power = 30
scroll down, watch CHANCE enchant and see progression of the Power.
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 02:12:09 PM
Wrong again.
It was 1/2 at lv10 (in fact was 1/2 regardless of the level) and was 3/4 by just doing one single +1 on enchant.
This was not how was in IL both on Official/Dragon/Infinity/Nightmare/Shadow/Dreadnaught/etc and even on L2J.
posting my scripts i think is meaningless but i can link you the L2J db:
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=450
Read: Power = 30
scroll down, watch CHANCE enchant and see progression of the Power.
then just change enchanting power, not the whole skills. as i said, now it's even worse than TU for lower levels
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
then just change enchanting power, not the whole skills. as i said, now it's even worse than TU for lower levels
Cant be worse, they have exactly same landrate, reuse, speed, cost, everything.
The only difference between TU/BU and BS is the valid target (undead or angel)
drake, did u ever play lineage?
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 02:25:23 PM
drake, did u ever play lineage?
Aint it a mod of Ultima Online?
no i'm serious, have you EVER played l2?
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
no i'm serious, have you EVER played l2?
Coso,... he did!
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
no i'm serious, have you EVER played l2?
since L2 Prelude in 2003 on both official and private servers...
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1400
i just noticed, you're using NOT INTERLUDE skill effect for a interlude server. since when you can enchant banish on dark attack? ::)
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 04:17:17 PM
i just noticed, you're using NOT INTERLUDE skill effect for a interlude server. since when you can enchant banish on dark attack? ::)
yea it's h5, but lethal chances are same
From same website you can check also IL db in case (Russian only) and you will see is same.
To tell you the truth, if you check it, you will notice that there the lethal is even lower (25) (2nd type lethal chance) so in fact BS/TU/BU here are still better than official.
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 07:33:34 PM
From same website you can check also IL db in case (Russian only) and you will see is same.
To tell you the truth, if you check it, you will notice that there the lethal is even lower (25) (2nd type lethal chance) so in fact BS/TU/BU here are still better than official.
before there were the same as official, now they are "even better (!)" than official........
THX Drake :) Now playing on this server will be pleasure for me :PPPPP
So.
Just to say.
I tryed again in TOI 10 , same lvl of mobs.
1/1(ooooh lucky one ) , 1/6 x2 ,1/4 , 1/26 , 1/15 , 1/17 , 1/11 , 1/15 , 1/19 . Etc etc ...
I soed after some minute ofc.
Thanks.
Quote from: Braskah on February 17, 2014, 10:57:30 PM
So.
Just to say.
I tryed again in TOI 10 , same lvl of mobs.
1/1(ooooh lucky one ) , 1/6 x2 ,1/4 , 1/26 , 1/15 , 1/17 , 1/11 , 1/15 , 1/19 . Etc etc ...
I soed after some minute ofc.
Thanks.
Skill fixed, np. :D
Quote from: Braskah on February 17, 2014, 10:57:30 PM
So.
Just to say.
I tryed again in TOI 10 , same lvl of mobs.
1/1(ooooh lucky one ) , 1/6 x2 ,1/4 , 1/26 , 1/15 , 1/17 , 1/11 , 1/15 , 1/19 . Etc etc ...
I soed after some minute ofc.
Thanks.
not to mention that i had to ask for help to kill some QUEST MONSTERS in vos for 3rd class......landed like 2 times on 10 mobs, rest i had to kill them with normal hits. but hey! it's retail settings! ::)
Quote from: sm0g on February 17, 2014, 11:18:09 PM
Skill fixed, np. :D
Quote from: =drake= on February 16, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
Well i cant say that indeed, even if the current Banish Seraph is ALSO following the official base % of retail INTERLUDE, like we did for TU/BU, is pretty much unfair.
In fact, on official, Banish Seraph was then later changed in HELLBOUND to be same as Turn Undead/Banish Undead (and it makes sense).
you can read the success rate extraction from here:
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=450
as i said already, we're playing interlude, not any newer chronicle.
Quote from: =drake= on February 17, 2014, 07:33:34 PM
From same website you can check also IL db in case (Russian only) and you will see is same.
To tell you the truth, if you check it, you will notice that there the lethal is even lower (25) (2nd type lethal chance) so in fact BS/TU/BU here are still better than official.
that is just funny. One time you claim you have OFFICIAL INTERLUDE client with skills. That everything WORKS PERFECTLY as on official server and players are wrong, then you say shit like above. Before you were even 100% sure about Banish seraph land rate and you said it's implemented as on other higher chronicles, even though later you claimed that it hasn't changed at all and it's bugged here.
Seriously Drake, I really enjoy this server and by far this is the best one you created, but you are starting to say things that aren't true and even worse, you believe in your own lies or bad knowledge.
EDIT:
I don't mind this server being customized. We all know it is and it's far from official, but don't say sth works as it should cuz you have official files.
Quote from: Garn. on February 17, 2014, 11:19:15 PM
not to mention that i had to ask for help to kill some QUEST MONSTERS in vos for 3rd class......landed like 2 times on 10 mobs, rest i had to kill them with normal hits. but hey! it's retail settings! ::)
lol try it with bishop. u cry with tank....
TK got no banishing of any form and you don't see me tearing up about it... Deal with it.
Also : about aggression? I kind of remember the old times, when a tank was totally useless outside making trains (and even there...)/being essentially a secondary support/safety to the destroyer dying. What will stop that issue from happening again? So far I already saw medium raid boss (lvl 60 or so) requiring only a destroyer or 2 and no tank at all. That idea about controlling dps is all cute and dandy, but it won't work on bigger raid where the last hit/biggest dps party won't want to deal with a tank(reducing dps). When the RB get stuck between dps related aggression transfer (2 archers/nukers exchanging the aggro), being a tank is utterly useless as you cannot keep up at all. Lineage meta never placed tanks anywhere important afaik (Gracia seemed a little bit better though). So it's not a bug from this version of IL, it's a lack of commitment toward tanks from NCsoft altogether that caused this problem. Doesn't mean there isn't one. Just like BU/BS, it's an issue that was more or less corrected in later installment, but it's still far from perfect from what I heard (for aggression that is).
Reducing mana use could help (for long RB, when you control your dps), or boosting it's effect on raidboss? If I recall, that's what happened on dragon at the time. Reducing CD (theres always a milisecond between the reactivation and the actual time you can use it)? Could help stack aggro faster in case of need, but could have an effect on pvp. A counter side could be more mana use, meaning that we could overcome high dps aggro, but not all the time. It would have an effect on farming, though. At any rate, why not give us something to do in this game outside from flailing our arms around while yelling : "Hey Ugly!" to the RB Ã la Skyrim :P?
EDIT: I like the new tattoo idea (as of yesterday : boost agro when you deal damage). Could something be done to get us an aggression booster tattoo (maybe outside dealing damage, like using aggro skill)? Or does aggression "power" count as damage done to the RB, thus increasing it's actual power already?
Quote from: Chicks on February 18, 2014, 07:16:23 PM
EDIT: I like the new tattoo idea (as of yesterday : boost agro when you deal damage). Could something be done to get us an aggression booster tattoo (maybe outside dealing damage, like using aggro skill)? Or does aggression "power" count as damage done to the RB, thus increasing it's actual power already?
Compared to clean IL files, Aggression/HateAura/similars... already give a bit more than pure retail (around 10%) and was done to balance out with the party in case they was using DPS tattoos so i hardly doubt we will touch them more.
If is still not enough, there is indeed the new tattoo and right now i'm pretty much curious to have some feedbacks from players that leveled it up to lv3 or more.
Please remember that for better aggression is needed higher tattoo.
More or less they work good in this way:
lv1 = lv30ish mobs
lv2 = lv50ish mobs
lv3 = lv60ish mobs
lv4 = lv70ish mobs
emp = lv76-80 mobs