Suggestion

[Peorexo]

lol

HB is the easiest chronicle for mages. Attr system early to mid game(easy 40% to 70% increase damage) + 4x m crit damage + no crit cap + pre-nerfed renewall and pony buff = Ez.  Oh + tattos cast and CHP, i almost forgot those...
Archers suck. Trickster and zerkers are awesome. Melee, lol, no mobility + no CoV - penalty.
Tons of missing enchantment routes that should have been added.
Majority of substack combos are useless.
I'm not saying H5 is good but Gracia Final Skilldata + formula changes fixed alot of the HB problems.
GF progression is another story tho.


There's a way to simulate interlude playstyle when it comes to progression/gear in HB/GF servers. Despawn the npc that starts the quest to open HB = profit. Add dark/holy stones to dark water dragons so that every class has access to "their attribute" and there you go. After 2~3 months GMs can reactivate the npc and everyone will be full geared to farm in HB island.
On official servers players experienced this, when HB patch hitted everyone was fully geared with OE gear/skills ready for HB PvP Proof(check skills + video description): https://youtu.be/Id3IB_j1qMo
There wont be any excuses this way.

Go again through my movies, i was getting 300-400 normal dmg from other mages with S gear and element make that *4 and thats huge 1.5k~ avg mcrit having 9k total hp+cp on mage, considering the only high dmg threat (500-600 normal) was high-end SH thats still enough to survive with mage character, which is way easier on fighter when u have total above 12k. With Trickster i was dishing out like 2-4k crits with 3-5 hits per second, thats on par with he/glad (and he/wl) are the highest DPS classes on last Hellraiser, no competition whatsoever with any other class, what about daggers dishing 5-10k crits constantly ? Too weak to play?

Speed issue? Archers have counter dash + HE have dashes, kamalols blinks, playing with SE/SK fixes almost all speed problems having 2x ROOT, add one bp/da to pt and with hamstring ur catching everyone with every party setup. Flame Icon, ever heard? Ren/Champ insanely broken as well giving on dagger/tank SOF reuse of like what 3-4 minutes ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjfWNrEA48

Here you have hellraiser half-baked archer pt vs gm-frand clan with high-end skills + epics

About H5 setups:
Glads+da
Glad+nukers
Glad+melee
TripleCancel
2tricksters+da
3tricksters

seems legit

[Picksy]

make stucksub great again 

[Clonage]

Go again through my movies, i was getting 300-400 normal dmg from other mages with S gear and element make that *4 and thats huge 1.5k~ avg mcrit having 9k total hp+cp on mage, considering the only high dmg threat (500-600 normal) was high-end SH thats still enough to survive with mage character, which is way easier on fighter when u have total above 12k. With Trickster i was dishing out like 2-4k crits with 3-5 hits per second, thats on par with he/glad (and he/wl) are the highest DPS classes on last Hellraiser, no competition whatsoever with any other class, what about daggers dishing 5-10k crits constantly ? Too weak to play?

Speed issue? Archers have counter dash + HE have dashes, kamalols blinks, playing with SE/SK fixes almost all speed problems having 2x ROOT, add one bp/da to pt and with hamstring ur catching everyone with every party setup. Flame Icon, ever heard? Ren/Champ insanely broken as well giving on dagger/tank SOF reuse of like what 3-4 minutes ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjfWNrEA48

Here you have hellraiser half-baked archer pt vs gm-frand clan with high-end skills + epics

About H5 setups:
Glads+da
Glad+nukers
Glad+melee
TripleCancel
2tricksters+da
3tricksters

seems legit

Uh. You're exagerating a "lil bit". So you were also dealing 600 dmg aswell? :/ I dont think so... Custom pots, tattoos and bullshits. People are so fuking baited by these items only 1~2 thing are viable the rest is what we call in portuguese: "Encher chouriços". You have to test/know what they actually do to get any type of advantage from them. Pots dont even show the values. Offensive ones are useless. Of course your gonna have unbalanced PvP on this type of servers. How can people not learn that intruducing new stuff to the game breaks it. Even substack it self does. Substack is hard enough to balance and we still get custom pots + tattoos, iks necro de....

Did i ever said trick was bad? Windstorm doesnt even affect them lol. Trick zerker is full of steroids, debuffs and utility skills.

When i speak about no mobility on melees im excluding kamaels, of course(?). And specificaly talking about daggers since they are the only melee characters without any ranged skill. Dunno why you talk about HE having dash, ecks dee. Counter dash sure sws sr and done. No need lolhawkeyes in party. HE/WL is a fuking monster in PvE Tho, holy shit, his damage is insane in HB.

SE/SK instead of EE/xx??? Yeah right... Maybe if prohpecies, touch/spirit of shilen were GF+ sure. What another viable combo? O_O Just by changing skills! *Mind blown* I can see bp da work in melee pt tho, nice one. But DA is so underpowered in HB compared to HB and GF tanks....

I think i can count with only one hand how many times i got stabbed on HR2 out side of olys.
Do you even know what does a good game look like? -> When casual players(assuming class combo wise) and harcore players both have a good experience.(Hi interlude)
Did any of that happen in both Hellraiser servers? Nop. Why? Custom bullshit items. Untouched skills. The only way to have fun in HR is for hardcore(passionate) players cuz they learn how to break the game(again classe wise) and play what's "Meta" vs "scrubs". Substack has more diversity theoretically but in reallity most combos are useless and it reflects in very little diversity in compositions.(He/WK iz best hue hue) I had more fun in HR1 then in HR2, HR1 had more ppl = more PvP. HR2 was more social for me, got to know more ppl, still had some fun vs cheat0rs criting me for 500 on shield cyka blyat.

Substack has more diversity theoretically but in reallity most combos are useless and it reflects in very little diversity in compositions.(He/WK iz best hue hue)

With your H5 example you just showed more viability in comps then in HR.
What's viable in HR?
Imo:
Nukers+zerker
Nukers
2 trick + smthg
3 Tricks

Btw i dont give a shit about h5, ecks dee. Since DN HB is downgraded from GF it would be alot easier to change stuff to GF values instead of getting new server files. Yea i know Glad +skills 30 + duelist spirit +30 + Final secret hit like a truck and that's why we need tweaking in substack and continued work from staff. Fyck all these releasing server and going AFK. I'd rather have 1 year of full fuking beta testing then playing current state of HR over and over with 2~3 months MAX of playtime.

It's gotten to a point were compositions are stall and boring. Sws/ee bd/se are mandatary with probably 1~2 exceptions, everything else will make your party win probability decrease DRASTICALLY. They have no weakness. In HR1 they had 1 weakness and GMs decided to take it away. Bravo.
As i keep saying there's 2 many bait combos, there's no natural direction like on retail servers for party compositions or any balance for diversity.(decreased mana consumption on bard/fighters.... The problem was never lack of mana on fighter pt to begin with... Oh nvm what am i'm talking about... fighters go vs 4~5 burners. Of course they have no mana. Let's buff mp consumption on bard/fighters! Wrong.

I'm looking at the game from a different prespective now then i had a year ago. If casuals don't have fun you will end up with an empty server in 1 month. That's the difference between a good game and a bad game(Substack is a complete different game). Just look at League of legos and Overwatch. Off meta heroes are viable, AT LEAST, in specific situations/maps/comps. In substack this will never happen when you have example OP bard/rechargers(cough cough sws sr) all the other combos are useless. Their just not viable, You cant out performe current bard/recharger with bard/whateverthefuk.  Another example why casuals matter for server health: GranKain has 6.5k at peak time. Top sides have roughly arround 400 on RMT, 300+ on ROA and 150 on Rise, that makes the rest of the online numbers are "casuals", smaller clans, boxes and shops. The game is fun if you play X or Y or Z class, it doesnt matter. This happens with all servers and chronicles. Everyone influences the game, specially the economy.
Ofc there will always be the best class(combo) but atleast make everything else fun and a bit viable.

[Peorexo]

Uh. You're exagerating a "lil bit". So you were also dealing 600 dmg aswell? :/ I dont think so... Custom pots, tattoos and bullshits. People are so fuking baited by these items only 1~2 thing are viable the rest is what we call in portuguese: "Encher chouriços". You have to test/know what they actually do to get any type of advantage from them. Pots dont even show the values. Offensive ones are useless. Of course your gonna have unbalanced PvP on this type of servers. How can people not learn that intruducing new stuff to the game breaks it. Even substack it self does. Substack is hard enough to balance and we still get custom pots + tattoos, iks necro de....

Did i ever said trick was bad? Windstorm doesnt even affect them lol. Trick zerker is full of steroids, debuffs and utility skills.

When i speak about no mobility on melees im excluding kamaels, of course(?). And specificaly talking about daggers since they are the only melee characters without any ranged skill. Dunno why you talk about HE having dash, ecks dee. Counter dash sure sws sr and done. No need lolhawkeyes in party. HE/WL is a fuking monster in PvE Tho, holy shit, his damage is insane in HB.

SE/SK instead of EE/xx??? Yeah right... Maybe if prohpecies, touch/spirit of shilen were GF+ sure. What another viable combo? O_O Just by changing skills! *Mind blown* I can see bp da work in melee pt tho, nice one. But DA is so underpowered in HB compared to HB and GF tanks....

I think i can count with only one hand how many times i got stabbed on HR2 out side of olys.
Do you even know what does a good game look like? -> When casual players(assuming class combo wise) and harcore players both have a good experience.(Hi interlude)
Did any of that happen in both Hellraiser servers? Nop. Why? Custom bullshit items. Untouched skills. The only way to have fun in HR is for hardcore(passionate) players cuz they learn how to break the game(again classe wise) and play what's "Meta" vs "scrubs". Substack has more diversity theoretically but in reallity most combos are useless and it reflects in very little diversity in compositions.(He/WK iz best hue hue) I had more fun in HR1 then in HR2, HR1 had more ppl = more PvP. HR2 was more social for me, got to know more ppl, still had some fun vs cheat0rs criting me for 500 on shield cyka blyat.

Substack has more diversity theoretically but in reallity most combos are useless and it reflects in very little diversity in compositions.(He/WK iz best hue hue)

With your H5 example you just showed more viability in comps then in HR.
What's viable in HR?
Imo:
Nukers+zerker
Nukers
2 trick + smthg
3 Tricks

Btw i dont give a shit about h5, ecks dee. Since DN HB is downgraded from GF it would be alot easier to change stuff to GF values instead of getting new server files. Yea i know Glad +skills 30 + duelist spirit +30 + Final secret hit like a truck and that's why we need tweaking in substack and continued work from staff. Fyck all these releasing server and going AFK. I'd rather have 1 year of full fuking beta testing then playing current state of HR over and over with 2~3 months MAX of playtime.

It's gotten to a point were compositions are stall and boring. Sws/ee bd/se are mandatary with probably 1~2 exceptions, everything else will make your party win probability decrease DRASTICALLY. They have no weakness. In HR1 they had 1 weakness and GMs decided to take it away. Bravo.
As i keep saying there's 2 many bait combos, there's no natural direction like on retail servers for party compositions or any balance for diversity.(decreased mana consumption on bard/fighters.... The problem was never lack of mana on fighter pt to begin with... Oh nvm what am i'm talking about... fighters go vs 4~5 burners. Of course they have no mana. Let's buff mp consumption on bard/fighters! Wrong.

I'm looking at the game from a different prespective now then i had a year ago. If casuals don't have fun you will end up with an empty server in 1 month. That's the difference between a good game and a bad game(Substack is a complete different game). Just look at League of legos and Overwatch. Off meta heroes are viable, AT LEAST, in specific situations/maps/comps. In substack this will never happen when you have example OP bard/rechargers(cough cough sws sr) all the other combos are useless. Their just not viable, You cant out performe current bard/recharger with bard/whateverthefuk.  Another example why casuals matter for server health: GranKain has 6.5k at peak time. Top sides have roughly arround 400 on RMT, 300+ on ROA and 150 on Rise, that makes the rest of the online numbers are "casuals", smaller clans, boxes and shops. The game is fun if you play X or Y or Z class, it doesnt matter. This happens with all servers and chronicles. Everyone influences the game, specially the economy.
Ofc there will always be the best class(combo) but atleast make everything else fun and a bit viable.

About dmg dealt/received, you think game should be balanced the way casuals/noobs wants? Maybe make 1 uncancellable buff available for everyone that grants effects from everything u should be using and keep the game fair and simple? That wont solve shit anyway. Every character is playable, but requires more thoughts and preparation with whole party composition to be viable. And by viable i dont mean equally strong as god-tier setups, but viable to the level which allows you to 9v9, stand your ground againts most compositions depending only on your very own skill cap.

Server wasnt and will never be as populated as classic/rpg ones. This is designed for completely different people. DN community will not stand the kind of gameplay that kind of server is offering and thus is one of the reasons they will never be able to compete and the top level. That you can clearly see at any ours pvp movies when we were mostly outnumbered right?

bd/se and ee/sws a must in parties? Not really, you can swap the combos a bit, shift the characters and u might even get a better outcome. Substack let you have more of everything in party and some people instead of thinking clearly how to use it, they forget about balancing the offense/defense factor of any setup. I've spotted 5-6 dd parties in the wild. Are they bad? Maybe not, the raw burst can potentialy shut down the supportive parties (this was shown on 9v9 tournament E-global hosted recently).

People hate on SE cuz it doesnt have proper healing nor blessing of eva, but whats the real problem? SE/SK is one of the strongest classes out there for fighter parties its not a healer deal with it.

TBH smth like se/sk + aw/sk + trick zerk + glad/xx that could potentially 2second wipe any composition if you could get the stuff going correctly.
While yeah thats kind of exaggaration considering u need to keep some things going for that to work out, it still does have huge potential on its own.

Tell me one thing, why u consider composition having bd/se + sws/ee boring cuz its "mandatory" when you REALLY need to have recharge and bards 100% of time anyway? The point if this combos let you choose 7 remaining characters with less restrictions. This is just optimal. In everyday servers u need to have sws bd ee/se + 2 cardis like 99% of the time so ?

Casuals not having fun... Lets look at the numbers. If server had 1000 unique players and we had like 3 top sides all of them having atleast 50 unique players at its own. Thats doesnt conclude the list of clans and players. We can easily assume 300-400 players will be completely casual logging time-to-time and not taking parts in grand battles, but they do pvp at spots, forts. They do go oly. The rest semi-active players from all the other clans are battling each other more often that we do probably know, and i guess thats fun definition for them. Most of them dont want to fight againts the top and its their every own choice to make. Now if we look at that and consider how we didnt have any action as top clan then im pretty sure we had less fun than this casuals

While I agree there were things that could have gone better for HR1 and HR2 I do honestly believe that this is not the problem about the classes nor balance on its own.
I am considering the HR2 as pretty balanced all-around 9v9 party oriented compositions, its just most IL mentallity players couldt understand why archers on 2 dual boxes cant pew pew that good anymore i guess.

[Picksy]

stfu u both wanna be's, bow down to the necro power.
Just fking listen to players feedback plssssssssssssss

[HerrMayer]

make stucksub great again 

totally agree
when going to kill golka was the great thing
making camp for respawn... ppl pking to get horn
orcs as leaders and lot of people raiding the boss to get the horn

https://youtu.be/_td95CSbXw4

make dragon network great again 

[Clonage]

About dmg dealt/received, you think game should be balanced the way casuals/noobs wants? Maybe make 1 uncancellable buff available for everyone that grants effects from everything u should be using and keep the game fair and simple? That wont solve shit anyway. Every character is playable, but requires more thoughts and preparation with whole party composition to be viable. And by viable i dont mean equally strong as god-tier setups, but viable to the level which allows you to 9v9, stand your ground againts most compositions depending only on your very own skill cap.

Server wasnt and will never be as populated as classic/rpg ones. This is designed for completely different people. DN community will not stand the kind of gameplay that kind of server is offering and thus is one of the reasons they will never be able to compete and the top level. That you can clearly see at any ours pvp movies when we were mostly outnumbered right?

bd/se and ee/sws a must in parties? Not really, you can swap the combos a bit, shift the characters and u might even get a better outcome. Substack let you have more of everything in party and some people instead of thinking clearly how to use it, they forget about balancing the offense/defense factor of any setup. I've spotted 5-6 dd parties in the wild. Are they bad? Maybe not, the raw burst can potentialy shut down the supportive parties (this was shown on 9v9 tournament E-global hosted recently).

People hate on SE cuz it doesnt have proper healing nor blessing of eva, but whats the real problem? SE/SK is one of the strongest classes out there for fighter parties its not a healer deal with it.

TBH smth like se/sk + aw/sk + trick zerk + glad/xx that could potentially 2second wipe any composition if you could get the stuff going correctly.
While yeah thats kind of exaggaration considering u need to keep some things going for that to work out, it still does have huge potential on its own.

Tell me one thing, why u consider composition having bd/se + sws/ee boring cuz its "mandatory" when you REALLY need to have recharge and bards 100% of time anyway? The point if this combos let you choose 7 remaining characters with less restrictions. This is just optimal. In everyday servers u need to have sws bd ee/se + 2 cardis like 99% of the time so ?

Casuals not having fun... Lets look at the numbers. If server had 1000 unique players and we had like 3 top sides all of them having atleast 50 unique players at its own. Thats doesnt conclude the list of clans and players. We can easily assume 300-400 players will be completely casual logging time-to-time and not taking parts in grand battles, but they do pvp at spots, forts. They do go oly. The rest semi-active players from all the other clans are battling each other more often that we do probably know, and i guess thats fun definition for them. Most of them dont want to fight againts the top and its their every own choice to make. Now if we look at that and consider how we didnt have any action as top clan then im pretty sure we had less fun than this casuals

While I agree there were things that could have gone better for HR1 and HR2 I do honestly believe that this is not the problem about the classes nor balance on its own.
I am considering the HR2 as pretty balanced all-around 9v9 party oriented compositions, its just most IL mentallity players couldt understand why archers on 2 dual boxes cant pew pew that good anymore i guess.

Good read.

I dont consider them to be boring in terms of gameplay, i was going to roll myself an ee sws on last server(i actually had that on one sub xD). It's just boring to see them the most viable in each comp(besides sws sr). I'd love to see bard/tanks maybe even bard/dders, as weaker combos, but still somewhat viable to play. It's just that we have so many combinations for nothing.

Also i've been playing on eglobal and i can say that almost no1 as ever heard of DN. Even a colleague of mine from work that plays L2 for 10 years hasnt heard of it... It's not hard to try and impress new players that never heard of it to try it out.  They just need to hear some interesting words from publicity/Ads/announcement and that's it. Something like: "Bored of traditional lineage and wanna try something new and complex?  try out our substack server bla bla bla"

[HerrMayer]

Peorexo and Clonage

consider writing a book plox...
the history of ur lifes tho...
what unnecesary dump of text...   

[Clonage]

Peorexo and Clonage

consider writing a book plox...
the history of ur lifes tho...
what unnecesary dump of text...   

Unlike you, i come to forums to try and express my ideas to help improve what we have atm. And as you can see there's other people with other ideas and points of view which is always interesting. And that's the point of forums.

Picksy say sorry for baiting this guy...
#makenecrobishopgr8again

[HerrMayer]

right keep trying... be sure to not fail 

but... you can keep that unlike me 
bcz i did it many times during nightmare and arena times
for arena it was a shame... noone paid atention to feedback as resulted server died empty

so... b4 saying about me be sure 100%

[Peorexo]

#makenecrobishopgr8again

+1 kappa

And yeah i tried to convince my pt of using bd/sk, like srsly this shit supposed to be so freaking good considering the skillset in HB

[Picksy]

+1 kappa

And yeah i tried to convince my pt of using bd/sk, like srsly this shit supposed to be so freaking good considering the skillset in HB

but then u think "why dafuq am I taking melee control in my comp as a tank if I can just get a zerker and thats all the control I need" and then u make bd/se like everyone else XD