Few Sugestion

[Easley]

I'm kinda joking and kinda serious xd

Bard/elder (sws/ee or bd/se) - their only weakness before was having to play on elder status which means no recharge. This was changed on HR2 which made this class super OP and pretty much the only viable choice to any setup (except for sws/sr on archer pt).

Mage/Tanks are still strong not because of deflect arrow but the shield rate from tanks passive, which makes pretty much every archer suck, except for tricksters who are super strong and pretty much the only archers in an archer pt (u would have sws/sr but literally only for the sr buff).

I'm not saying this is completly unbalanced. I do agree HR2 might have been onr the most balanced server from DN. The thing i'm talking about is that there are still things to work on imo... Its true any comp could work but thats cause most of the other parties in DN are deorganized or simply don't know the game enough to themselves have proper comps and stucksubs. I still saw some HE/WK..... how is that still a thing ? My point is..Bards shouldn't be able to get recharged, they are already too good for a party to even be able to get infinite mana pool. Mage tanks should not benefit from tanks passives either. The active skills are already too good of a combo for a mage  who is meant to do tons of damage but die pretty quick. Right now, mage tanks are almost as tank as a tank itself, which would be fine for the other characters, but not for long range high dpsers...This is the reason why people cry mages are OP. It is too easy to play a mage/tank and roll people with it. U can still win vs them, but it would be because of skill, not because there are ways around mage/tanks. Put 2 equally skilled parties if one of them is mage/tank normal setup, the other party could be anything you want, the mages will always win. This is just my 2 cents, but what do I know, I'm just a noob necro losing vs scary on oly with the "OP MAGE/TANK", or did I win? hmmm

All valid points imo, the recharge thing is a bit hard to deal with I think but if we combine the stuf from HR1 and HR2 it would be a bit better. Means you can't self recharge and oracles can't recharge eachother. Going with a EE/ES on ES stats would be one way to get the infinite loop going again but atleast it wouldn't be as powerful I think since he'll be solo recharging the other oracles along with burning enemies. This along with lowering power of mana burns would be a fun change imo

Mage/tanks are definietly more user friendly than other combos and can be strong without much effort and even more so in good hands, an overall def rate reduction wouldn't be bad either coz even non-tanks are still getting full def rate with buffs (atleast vs archers). Still, I do think it's not the end of the world if nothing was touched skill wise even. But I feel it'd be more forgiving for those who doesnt run full CP party.

[Picksy]

All valid points imo, the recharge thing is a bit hard to deal with I think but if we combine the stuf from HR1 and HR2 it would be a bit better. Means you can't self recharge and oracles can't recharge eachother. Going with a EE/ES on ES stats would be one way to get the infinite loop going again but atleast it wouldn't be as powerful I think since he'll be solo recharging the other oracles along with burning enemies. This along with lowering power of mana burns would be a fun change imo

Mage/tanks are definietly more user friendly than other combos and can be strong without much effort and even more so in good hands, an overall def rate reduction wouldn't be bad either coz even non-tanks are still getting full def rate with buffs (atleast vs archers). Still, I do think it's not the end of the world if nothing was touched skill wise even. But I feel it'd be more forgiving for those who doesnt run full CP party.

Yes, the old system where the EE/ES would play on ES stats and recharge himself is way more balanced. This way you'll have to manage the mana instead of just spamming skills left and right. U shouldn't even be able to recharge the Bards, specially cause u have blessings of eva (at least 2 from ee/es and sws/ee) AND mass recharges. Thats just my opinion... I think the recharge system on HR1 was better than the one on HR2.

[Peorexo]

Put 2 equally skilled parties if one of them is mage/tank normal setup, the other party could be anything you want, the mages will always win. This is just my 2 cents, but what do I know, I'm just a noob necro losing vs scary on oly with the "OP MAGE/TANK", or did I win? hmmm

Did u play on HR2 ? This is completely bullshit

About only Trickster viable is another bullshit, but well the same story will repeat. Few guys destroys with "PICK A CLASS" and its the only viable choice apparently.

Tricksters are only good because everyone plays tank, and they are the best tank-shredders in the game, againts any non-tanks they are weaker than other classes.
Considering our sr/sws was making more frags than trick/slh, that means something

[Clonage]

Bards shouldn't be able to get recharged, they are already too good for a party to even be able to get infinite mana pool.

You mean Recharger/Bard on recharger stats, rigth?

[Picksy]

Did u play on HR2 ? This is completely bullshit

About only Trickster viable is another bullshit, but well the same story will repeat. Few guys destroys with "PICK A CLASS" and its the only viable choice apparently.

Tricksters are only good because everyone plays tank, and they are the best tank-shredders in the game, againts any non-tanks they are weaker than other classes.
Considering our sr/sws was making more frags than trick/slh, that means something

Lel you're so egocentric sometimes really. U should know what i'm talking about. Again, some players can make whatever class they want and they will still rekt the other noobs but that is purely skill/knowledge based when the classes themselves are unbalaced and you know it. For some reason you made the setups u made in ur pts. Cause you know what is op and what is not. But most people don't so they just copy what they see (when they do, sometimes they don't even care). What I'm talking about is balance so that I don't feel handicapped when playing any other classes/comps other than the clear OP ones. I

I agree there is always gonna be a "best setup", but the gap between the "best setup" and the "2nd/3rd best setup" shouldn't be this big when there can be made fixes that will shorten this gap. Put the fking ego aside for a bit and write what you actually think, not this zzzzz

You mean Recharger/Bard on recharger stats, rigth?

of course xdd

[Clonage]

Well, my opinion on the bard/oracles subject is that both restrictions of recharge should be added to the skill from HR1 and HR2. Bard/oracle same as hr1, oracle/sum same as hr2. If party wants infinite mana loop they either add another oracle/sum or bard/oracles will have to play on bard stats. Brings back bard/oracles weakness. Doesn't make EE/ES solo infinite mana. Increases diversity.

What will happen to partys:

Fast infinite mana loop(3~4 burners):
2rech/sum this opens new options for Bard subs.

Mana burn oriented party(4~5), no infinite mana loop (bard/oracle playstyle same as Hr1)
1 ee/es + 2 bard/oracles(oracle stats)

"Slow" infinite mana loop(1~2~3 normal burners +1~2 "slow" burners), mana pool oriented party
1 ee/es +2 bard/oracles(bard stats or 1 oracle and 1 bard)

*PS: Counting Bishop(s) as burner(s).

[djvancho]

I think mana  burn must have fixed reuse like 5 or 7 seconds .

[stanko]

I think mana  burn must have fixed reuse like 5 or 7 seconds .

Cmon man don't make this kind of suggestion, we know you as a guy who spams this 2 weeks into the new server: "We need fresh clean server from 0 with good advertisement"

[Jardiro]

Im pretty sure thats not class-based thing

i think it was dramamakerz thing since archers in my clan were doing pretty good job shutting me down at sieges

[mruwqa]

i think it was dramamakerz thing since archers in my clan were doing pretty good job shutting me down at sieges

especialy after giran at hr1 when exi decided to quit because archers are too weak (meanwhile 79trickster on retail in pt ) xddd
game is perfectly balanced, as dramamakers coleader we had arround 100ppl through server, not even 9 would get even invited into fear because they are simply bad/doesnt care/cant communicate/ i dont even know how to call it xD    well same goes for Exi or any other clans that existed in stacksub server xD 

bard/elder op?  what?    just add some dot mana pots with 300/15sec or sth  no decrasing anything and its fine

[Picksy]

bard/elder op?  what?    just add some dot mana pots with 300/15sec or sth  no decrasing anything and its fine

When I say op I mean that it is the only viable option. I'll try explaining this way ... If you face a pt that has that setup whilst not having it urself, u pretty much already lost (assuming everyone has same skill). That mana pot thing is actually interesting. I'm personally not a fan of mana pots but it can be the way to balance this out.

No self-recharge + No recharge for elders (while on elder status) + 300/15sec mana pot.
With this, bard/elder is still the best option BUT it allows for other subs while not being at a huge disadvantage like bard/tank or even bard/nuker with 2 ee/es's in the pt

[Vexim]

Put 2 equally skilled parties if one of them is mage/tank normal setup, the other party could be anything you want, the mages will always win.

In late game pvps (with same gear/skill) mage party is not even the strongest, both archers and daggers are better.
The only difference is that mages are way easier to play/more user-friendly/"more straightforward" and they are better at killing "under geared/under skilled" pts aka multikills on c grade jewels/no ressists guys.
If fighters are in good hands they can pwn any mage pt, but you cant explain this to 90% of DN players, knowledge is everything.