So... i dont understand why you give SE major heal... its totally unfair to give a skill from another class to another who isnt supposed to aquire it... If someone choose to make a SE rather than a EE or BP he choose it cause he assumes the consequence and now that is all screwed up cause they get major heal. Some will probly say, SE is a shitty healer and so on, well for those who think about this, SE is not that great of a healer cause of cast speed, but SE is more a BUFFER than a HEALER, if it doesnt have such good heal, cast speed, its cause on the other hand they have the best buff for mage, and that makes them unreplacable. Even if u would take off those heals... people would still have to make SE cause they are too much important.
Before you give out skills you should think about dwarf wich are from start boring cause they have not great skills, attacks and only 2 classes to play, or the sk/tk that no one plays in tank style because they cant do anything, dont have great skill either (well for tk)
so imo, before give se major heal, give something to the dwarves, tk, sk, so people acttualy make some and play them as a tank style (with hvy armor, blunt/sword and shield)
I hope u just jokin...
Quote from: GekKey on February 22, 2010, 11:49:28 AM
So... i dont understand why you give SE major heal... its totally unfair to give a skill from another class to another who isnt supposed to aquire it... If someone choose to make a SE rather than a EE or BP he choose it cause he assumes the consequence and now that is all screwed up cause they get major heal. Some will probly say, SE is a shitty healer and so on, well for those who think about this, SE is not that great of a healer cause of cast speed, but SE is more a BUFFER than a HEALER, if it doesnt have such good heal, cast speed, its cause on the other hand they have the best buff for mage, and that makes them unreplacable. Even if u would take off those heals... people would still have to make SE cause they are too much important.
Before you give out skills you should think about dwarf wich are from start boring cause they have not great skills, attacks and only 2 classes to play, or the sk/tk that no one plays in tank style because they cant do anything, dont have great skill either (well for tk)
so imo, before give se major heal, give something to the dwarves, tk, sk, so people acttualy make some and play them as a tank style (with hvy armor, blunt/sword and shield)
Indeed, SE is rather buffer than healer, it has all necessary offensive fighter/mage buffs+recharge what makes it great char for farm on retail server. But on DN (and partly on retail servers) SE lost its role since PP or WC are much more demanded for having more defensive buffs and nobody needs SE's normal heals since half of mages are xx/ee and party healers are usually BP's.
besides here many players would like to play SE-subbed char as main, but nuker/support without heal dies pretty fast in pvp and on oly and even now with major heal on SE sps/ee is still much stronger than sh/se and there are much stronger mage combos than se/xx still.
as for dwarves they are made for farm not for pvp (tho I remember how one dumb GM was crying his dwarf dies at oly) as for TK and SK they got good skills like Aegis and TK is especially good for 2 ToL's. tbh I think SK would need some improvement since their nukes here are kinda useless on fighter stats while on retail servers they play important role and can't say how good is touch of shillien since I never saw it here
Quote from: GekKey on February 22, 2010, 11:49:28 AM
So... i dont understand why you give SE major heal... its totally unfair to give a skill from another class to another who isnt supposed to aquire it... If someone choose to make a SE rather than a EE or BP he choose it cause he assumes the consequence and now that is all screwed up cause they get major heal. Some will probly say, SE is a shitty healer and so on, well for those who think about this, SE is not that great of a healer cause of cast speed, but SE is more a BUFFER than a HEALER, if it doesnt have such good heal, cast speed, its cause on the other hand they have the best buff for mage, and that makes them unreplacable. Even if u would take off those heals... people would still have to make SE cause they are too much important.
Before you give out skills you should think about dwarf wich are from start boring cause they have not great skills, attacks and only 2 classes to play, or the sk/tk that no one plays in tank style because they cant do anything, dont have great skill either (well for tk)
so imo, before give se major heal, give something to the dwarves, tk, sk, so people acttualy make some and play them as a tank style (with hvy armor, blunt/sword and shield)
What's your point?
SE got a major heal..... Something it has had for several years, right up untill the new major heal update where u had that retarded aftereffect instead (Think it was updated in IL)
And noone ever complained before... The fact of the matter is that SE is still by far the worst healer, and no pt with selfrespect would ever go PvP with nothing but an SE as healer.
My guess is that you play xx/ee, and are pissed that some bd/se's can beat you in oly. And this heal skill isn't completely custom either, it's just updated in a later chronicle.
Give the warlord some action too!! xD
Totally forgotten character
Quote from: Luthiels on February 22, 2010, 06:41:49 PM
Give the warlord some action too!! xD
Totally forgotten character
Ya! And to all Kamaels! They are new in da house and already forgotten! ...
Quote from: kidicarus on February 22, 2010, 06:32:09 PM
What's your point?
SE got a major heal..... Something it has had for several years, right up untill the new major heal update where u had that retarded aftereffect instead (Think it was updated in IL)
And noone ever complained before... The fact of the matter is that SE is still by far the worst healer, and no pt with selfrespect would ever go PvP with nothing but an SE as healer.
My guess is that you play xx/ee, and are pissed that some bd/se's can beat you in oly. And this heal skill isn't completely custom either, it's just updated in a later chronicle.
1st Check the update on the 20th of january... SE got Major heal and mana storm... we were in HB much before that.... before giving out skill to a class that has already a purpose and is played because its needed, theres other classes that dont have skills from others, and arent played cause it make them boring to play, im just pointing try be fair, u wanted to help se being better, help other classes wich are forgotten also... I have a bd-se and a aw-se and i never was able to learn major heal untill now, sry, i dunno where u take that its here since interlude
and ur guess is totally wrong... i play he-wk and other fighters, in fact i dont even play mages, i dont even have a mage...
Quote from: GekKey on February 22, 2010, 07:54:45 PM
1st Check the update on the 20th of january... SE got Major heal and mana storm... we were in HB much before that.... before giving out skill to a class that has already a purpose and is played because its needed, theres other classes that dont have skills from others, and arent played cause it make them boring to play, im just pointing try be fair, u wanted to help se being better, help other classes wich are forgotten also... I have a bd-se and a aw-se and i never was able to learn major heal untill now, sry, i dunno where u take that its here since interlude
and ur guess is totally wrong... i play he-wk and other fighters, in fact i dont even play mages, i dont even have a mage...
The effect of increased HP regeneration from SE heal (which is eating 1 buffslot) is there from Interlude.
Quote from: GekKey on February 22, 2010, 07:54:45 PM
1st Check the update on the 20th of january... SE got Major heal and mana storm... we were in HB much before that.... before giving out skill to a class that has already a purpose and is played because its needed, theres other classes that dont have skills from others, and arent played cause it make them boring to play, im just pointing try be fair, u wanted to help se being better, help other classes wich are forgotten also... I have a bd-se and a aw-se and i never was able to learn major heal untill now, sry, i dunno where u take that its here since interlude
and ur guess is totally wrong... i play he-wk and other fighters, in fact i dont even play mages, i dont even have a mage...
Before IL the "normal" greater heal from SE was pretty much the same as major heal is now.
And the reason for the update were infact because noone played them other then as supportchars on dualbox.
And SE can easily be replaced by WC and some random SE out of pt with emp, and this was very much what happened after IL to 90% of SE classes in NM.
Quote from: kidicarus on February 22, 2010, 06:32:09 PM
What's your point?
SE got a major heal..... Something it has had for several years, right up untill the new major heal update where u had that retarded aftereffect instead (Think it was updated in IL)
And noone ever complained before... The fact of the matter is that SE is still by far the worst healer, and no pt with selfrespect would ever go PvP with nothing but an SE as healer.
My guess is that you play xx/ee, and are pissed that some bd/se's can beat you in oly. And this heal skill isn't completely custom either, it's just updated in a later chronicle.
agreed in a part....but according to your words every minor class should get latter chronicle's skills...because not only SE was a forgotten char .
Quote from: Dhart on February 22, 2010, 09:00:02 PM
agreed in a part....but according to your words every minor class should get latter chronicle's skills...because not only SE was a forgotten char .
Nah I haven't said that. Personally I think SE is the only one that needed that cause it effected the entire DE class when SE no longer could heal in IL.
Quote from: kidicarus on February 22, 2010, 09:10:45 PM
Nah I haven't said that. Personally I think SE is the only one that needed that cause it effected the entire DE class when SE no longer could heal in IL.
ah oki :p
Quote from: kidicarus on February 22, 2010, 08:07:06 PM
Before IL the "normal" greater heal from SE was pretty much the same as major heal is now.
And the reason for the update were infact because noone played them other then as supportchars on dualbox.
And SE can easily be replaced by WC and some random SE out of pt with emp, and this was very much what happened after IL to 90% of SE classes in NM.
yea i understand your point, but from the new proph update, SE got more wanted from fighters, pp are kinda uselss now but anyway... and compare to some other, se was even more played, and still, they get skill from another class
i think bd/se should get extra songs for oly
Quote from: GekKey on February 23, 2010, 10:35:49 AM
yea i understand your point, but from the new proph update, SE got more wanted from fighters, pp are kinda uselss now but anyway... and compare to some other, se was even more played, and still, they get skill from another class
I don't really know what you are talking about..... How will you ever go PvP without atleast elemental protection from PP? Improve contition? And bless shield?
SE got no extra buff.... all they got was a major heal. Don't really see how this in any way made them more wanted for figthters and made PP useless.
Your arguement is severely flawed, due to the fact that you don't really have an arguement.... Just because you say it is so doesn't make it true.
The only place where this update made a significant diffrence were in oly for the best geared BD/SE's. I still don't see ppl making sh/se se/sk or whatever just because it's still not the best choice if you want a buffer/healer sub, hence there is nothing OP about this update.
GekKey stop crying just make SE 8)
what about pow ? i mean pow for dagger ...
Quote from: QuadCore on February 23, 2010, 02:06:44 PM
what about pow ? i mean pow for dagger ...
how did pow change?could anybody explain me ?
Quote from: Torek [IF] on February 23, 2010, 04:01:22 PM
powind > powater for mages!!
Doesn't powater decresase MP consumption and add 20% m.crit rate?
The only advantage with PoWind would be the extra HP...... (correct me if im wrong here)
Quote from: kidicarus on February 23, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
Doesn't powater decresase MP consumption and add 20% m.crit rate?
The only advantage with PoWind would be the extra HP...... (correct me if im wrong here)
powater doesnt give mcrit anymore.... :P and for powind, gives pdef,mdef,crit rate, patk, hp,atk speed, cast speed, matk
so, pow is the best of the 3 prophecy for now, for fighter and mages
Quote from: kidicarus on February 23, 2010, 11:32:06 AM
I don't really know what you are talking about..... How will you ever go PvP without atleast elemental protection from PP? Improve contition? And bless shield?
SE got no extra buff.... all they got was a major heal. Don't really see how this in any way made them more wanted for figthters and made PP useless.
Your arguement is severely flawed, due to the fact that you don't really have an arguement.... Just because you say it is so doesn't make it true.
The only place where this update made a significant diffrence were in oly for the best geared BD/SE's. I still don't see ppl making sh/se se/sk or whatever just because it's still not the best choice if you want a buffer/healer sub, hence there is nothing OP about this update.
i didnt say pp are totally useless... but they are less wanted in parties now, unless you have dd sub, or bp... for exping... why take a pp when u can take a se have buffs and heal and gsap u got ur haste... your missing zerk but so what, kill slower, but u die slower
i use bp-wc to buff myself ;) and its perfect:P btw... u should beg ishield from ee... cause bless shield from pp is kinda shitty... isuch a high lvl tank like you should always get shield to succed
maybe its different on your server... on infinity theres some pretty good chars with se subs
Quote from: Malandro on February 23, 2010, 12:41:45 PM
GekKey stop crying just make SE 8)
i got enought of them but thx
Np ;D
Quote from: GekKey on February 23, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
powater doesnt give mcrit anymore.... :P and for powind, gives pdef,mdef,crit rate, patk, hp,atk speed, cast speed, matk
so, pow is the best of the 3 prophecy for now, for fighter and mages
Your so wrong in everything you posted here lol
PoW isn't the best for anyone, it all depends on your class or what you want to do.
All Prophecies give a basic bonus which all are the same (+atk speed, cast speed, p def, m def, p atk and m atk and reduce the same amount of speed)
PoWind gives an additional HP bonus and crit rate.
PoFire gives an additional MP bonus and crit dmg.
PoWater gives an additional clarity effect and MP regen.
So really, you're bullshiting and know shit of what you're talking about.
BD/Se was only used as a bot char, especially SE class was completely dead. Now it simply has a little more use over playing it. But a good healer? It will never be better then EE when compared to healing.
At oly it is a little bit stronger now, but it can still easily be beaten by lots of classes.
Quote from: GekKey on February 23, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
powater doesnt give mcrit anymore.... :P and for powind, gives pdef,mdef,crit rate, patk, hp,atk speed, cast speed, matk
so, pow is the best of the 3 prophecy for now, for fighter and mages
So... yeah.... no.....
Where do you get your facts from?
Quote from: kidicarus on February 24, 2010, 04:22:45 PM
So... yeah.... no.....
Where do you get your facts from?
go to the update on the dnet loader, where he says he updated the proh theres a link wich direct u to lineage2.com and there u will see exactly the new effects... stop think im just a stupid cause i started this threat ffs... seems u can understand the point there is other classes that sucks too and are never taken in pvp
Quote from: GekKey on February 26, 2010, 01:30:59 PM
go to the update on the dnet loader, where he says he updated the proh theres a link wich direct u to lineage2.com and there u will see exactly the new effects... stop think im just a stupid cause i started this threat ffs... seems u can understand the point there is other classes that sucks too and are never taken in pvp, its an opinion not a crying thing
Quote from: GekKey on February 26, 2010, 01:30:59 PM
go to the update on the dnet loader, where he says he updated the proh theres a link wich direct u to lineage2.com and there u will see exactly the new effects... stop think im just a stupid cause i started this threat ffs... seems u can understand the point there is other classes that sucks too and are never taken in pvp
You have actually read the skill description, and you still think that PoWind is the best prophecy for mages?
Well.... I dunno what to make of that. I didn't think you were stupid before, only missinformed. Now I think you're stupid though.
Water
For 5 minutes, receives help from a great spirit to increase the rate of Prominent Damage occurring through a party member's damage magic by 2, MP recovery bonus by 20%, P. Atk. by 10%, P. Def. by 20%, Atk. Spd. by 20%, M. Atk. by 20%, M. Def. by 20%, Casting Spd. by 20%, and resistance to de-buffs by 10%. Decreases moving speed by 20% and MP consumption for skill use by 5%. Consumes 10 Spirit Ore.
Wind
For 5 minutes, receives help from a great spirit to increase a party member's Max HP by 20%, rate of critical attack by 20%, rate of Prominent Damage through damage magic by 20%, P. Atk. by 10%, P. Def. by 20%, Atk. Spd. by 20%, M. Atk. by 20%, M. Def. by 20%, Casting Spd. by 20%, and resistance to de-buff by 10%. Decreases moving speed by 20%. Bestows the ability to recover as HP 5% of the standard short-range physical damage inflicted on the enemy. Consumes 10 Spirit Ore.
So, what do u see in powater that make it better than powind ? The mcrit bonus is gone, both give cast speed, matk, mdef, pdef. Unlike powater powind give more hp... i dont see why mage would prefer powater still....
Quote from: GekKey on February 26, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
So, what do u see in powater that make it better than powind ? The mcrit bonus is gone, both give cast speed, matk, mdef, pdef. Unlike powater powind give more hp... i dont see why mage would prefer powater still....
You claimed something different here;
Quote from: GekKey on February 23, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
so, pow is the best of the 3 prophecy for now, for fighter and mages
So now you're already back to only referring to mages, since yea, you should, as a fighter, PoFire is much better than PoWind.
When I played my mage, I still preferred PoWater over PoWind, but I have my reasons, I played SWS/EE, not because PoWater is my selfbuff, but merely based on the way I play and what my job is on PvP's. I don't really feel like telling you why I prefer PoWater over PoWind for my mage. It totally depends what you want and need.
here's a table from the thread "last updates". it might be helpful for you to see what each prophecy got..
Quote
| PoF | PoWa | PoWi | CoV | VoP |
| P.atk | 10% | 10% | 10% | 10% | 10% |
| P.def | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% |
| Hit | | | | 4 | |
| Crit | | | 20% | | 20% |
| Crit dmg | 20% | | | 20% | |
| Avo |
| A.spd | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% |
| C.spd | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% |
| M.atk | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% |
| M.def | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% | 20% |
| Speed | -20% | -20% | -20% | -20% | -20% |
| HP regen | 20% |
| MP regen | | 20% |
| Max HP | | | 20% | 20% |
| Max MP | 20% | | | | 20% |
| VR | | | 5% |
| Clarity | | 5% |
| M.crit rate | 2 | 2 | 20% | 2 |
| M.crit dmg | | 0% | | | 20% |
| Debuff resist | 10% | 10% | 10% | 10% | 10% |
| Max CP | | | | | 20% |
20% = Max +20% and restore increased amount.
Quote from: Caliburn on February 26, 2010, 07:25:25 PM
here's a table from the thread "last updates". it might be helpful for you to see what each prophecy got..
wrong table, powing gives +20% m crit damage (not on dnet)
Quote from: Furesy on February 26, 2010, 03:50:59 PM
You claimed something different here;So now you're already back to only referring to mages, since yea, you should, as a fighter, PoFire is much better than PoWind.
When I played my mage, I still preferred PoWater over PoWind, but I have my reasons, I played SWS/EE, not because PoWater is my selfbuff, but merely based on the way I play and what my job is on PvP's. I don't really feel like telling you why I prefer PoWater over PoWind for my mage. It totally depends what you want and need.
I dont understand the 1st quote... I said powater doesnt give mcrit anymore and i said it again... i didint claimed something different as i know..
and for the 2nd point u talk... everybody is free to take the proph they want, i just belive that powind is better cause you have slighly more hp... and i think its worth more than powater... since both give the same defense/mdef.. why not take few more hp so u can stand more shots in pvp
And, i prefer powind since u get more hp, cause those sps with their crit get it down quite fast... even if i dont have more crit power, i have more crit rate and hp to stand against mages
Quote from: GekKey on February 26, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
So, what do u see in powater that make it better than powind ? The mcrit bonus is gone, both give cast speed, matk, mdef, pdef. Unlike powater powind give more hp... i dont see why mage would prefer powater still....
seems like he is care only about mcrit rate bonus, that was removed from powater, nothing else
Quote from: GekKey on February 26, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
Water
For 5 minutes, receives help from a great spirit to increase the rate of Prominent Damage occurring through a party member's damage magic by 2, MP recovery bonus by 20%, P. Atk. by 10%, P. Def. by 20%, Atk. Spd. by 20%, M. Atk. by 20%, M. Def. by 20%, Casting Spd. by 20%, and resistance to de-buffs by 10%. Decreases moving speed by 20% and MP consumption for skill use by 5%. Consumes 10 Spirit Ore.
Wind
For 5 minutes, receives help from a great spirit to increase a party member's Max HP by 20%, rate of critical attack by 20%, rate of Prominent Damage through damage magic by 20%, P. Atk. by 10%, P. Def. by 20%, Atk. Spd. by 20%, M. Atk. by 20%, M. Def. by 20%, Casting Spd. by 20%, and resistance to de-buff by 10%. Decreases moving speed by 20%. Bestows the ability to recover as HP 5% of the standard short-range physical damage inflicted on the enemy. Consumes 10 Spirit Ore.
So, what do u see in powater that make it better than powind ? The mcrit bonus is gone, both give cast speed, matk, mdef, pdef. Unlike powater powind give more hp... i dont see why mage would prefer powater still....
clarity , mp regen.
Quote from: Marinella on February 28, 2010, 09:19:47 AM
seems like he is care only about mcrit rate bonus, that was removed from powater, nothing else
Ye and if I remember correctly the other m.crit buffs, gives like +300% (siren dance) and +100% (WM)
IF I remembered correctly.
I know it's a hell of a lot more then 20% though, and mp regen and clarity trumps that by far imo.
Quote from: kidicarus on March 01, 2010, 06:06:25 PM
Ye and if I remember correctly the other m.crit buffs, gives like +300% (siren dance) and +100% (WM) IF I remembered correctly.
I know it's a hell of a lot more then 20% though, and mp regen and clarity trumps that by far imo.
siren gives 200% and wm 300%... if that was not nerfed... but even then,, pow doesnt even give 20% mcrit rate...