sub, hb, mutants, major heal on se.

[barni]

Since there was few ppl writing about theirs ideas about subs ill allow myself to share my wisdom with You.
1. Dn sub system was great on C4, with hb skills (like f.e.pt ud) its really hard to balance gameplay.
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
Solution?
1. Allow all classes to sub any class they want with retail restrictions (elf can get d. elf sub, kamaels classes only for kamaels, etc.).
2. Disable 3rd class change to sub class.
3. Don't allow to switch classes (there u have also solved 2nd point). About learning skills from sub: f.e. make special npc.
4. Remove some nerfes like ud nerf.
5. If u remove attributes make ols drain fire element

That changes will bring more balance to oly and normal pvp. sps/ee, necro/pp, tyr/wc will be no longer that strong on oli, outside players will need pp/xx, wc/xx etc chars for high lvl buffs. Also pt ud will be available only to chars with tank as main (archer, dagger, etc. skills will be limited). This system will allow mutants to play oly. And this is big+. I dont see a reason why f.e. sr cant take pp/wk/wl/tyr sub and join oly.

Finally. Se will have mojor heal on this server? I'm thinking about making se/ps there;p
Regards.

[TankerEk]

mutants are bad ass , ppls running on ol+necro aint cool xD

[Kerth]

Since there was few ppl writing about theirs ideas about subs ill allow myself to share my wisdom with You.
1. Dn sub system was great on C4, with hb skills (like f.e.pt ud) its really hard to balance gameplay.
2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.
Solution?
1. Allow all classes to sub any class they want with retail restrictions (elf can get d. elf sub, kamaels classes only for kamaels, etc.).
2. Disable 3rd class change to sub class.
3. Don't allow to switch classes (there u have also solved 2nd point). About learning skills from sub: f.e. make special npc.
4. Remove some nerfes like ud nerf.
5. If u remove attributes make ols drain fire element

That changes will bring more balance to oly and normal pvp. sps/ee, necro/pp, tyr/wc will be no longer that strong on oli, outside players will need pp/xx, wc/xx etc chars for high lvl buffs. Also pt ud will be available only to chars with tank as main (archer, dagger, etc. skills will be limited). This system will allow mutants to play oly. And this is big+. I dont see a reason why f.e. sr cant take pp/wk/wl/tyr sub and join oly.

Finally. Se will have mojor heal on this server? I'm thinking about making se/ps there;p
Regards.

ad. 1. So why won;'t you play c4 server?  I don't like Hb neither, but going back is going nowhere, cuz ppl want to go foward.
ad. 2 +1

ad. 1. I think you meant that elf CAN'T take d elf sub.
ad. 2 Nonsence... Bcs then making sub for suport class is bullsh1t, if you can't even have 3rd skills. Instead, we will have only more classes like glad/pal etc...
ad. 3 Nonsence2, you can switch even retail, why not to switch normal class|? For ex if im making ne/pal, i don't want to start as pal, so i can remain necro after taking sub...
ad. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.
ad. 5 +1, but they won't remove it.

Imo:
1 Nefr attribtes

2 About mutants there are 2 solutions:
a) no mutants at all|
b) full mutants, without lvl cap

man mb u want disable   whole game ?  we can remove buffers too so pvp will  be longer  ...

ur ideas sux cuz if  they follow most of the things u said we will have new bugs/problems

First time I agree with you hahaha.

mutants are bad ass , ppls running on ol+necro aint cool xD

Why, cause you never reached one, and they only pwn you?
At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^

[TankerEk]

Why, cause you never reached one, and they only pwn you?
At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^

Never ever played Stucksub server so didnt had chance to get pwned by such class ;P
im low rate retail like playa i was owning up c3 when u was playin the sims 1 ^^ so pliz cut the crap off ))
from avatar i can see u're 14-15yo old kiddo

[barni]

ad. 1. So why won;'t you play c4 server?  I don't like Hb neither, but going back is going nowhere, cuz ppl want to go foward.

All i said was that current sub system is unbalanced for hb...

ad. 1. I think you meant that elf CAN'T take d elf sub.

ofc, my mistake.

ad. 2 Nonsence... Bcs then making sub for suport class is bullsh1t, if you can't even have 3rd skills. Instead, we will have only more classes like glad/pal etc...

yep, all U will miss from fighter/pp will be pof and some passives. And btw. aren't already "pro" players play chars like this?

ad. 3 Nonsence2, you can switch even retail, why not to switch normal class|? For ex if im making ne/pal, i don't want to start as pal, so i can remain necro after taking sub...

if U want ne/pal, start as a ne sub pal and learn pal skill ...
The point was to avoid chars like ol/ee (U can't take ol as retail), se/sk with full tank skills etc. But tbh im not sure if its good idea too.

ad. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.

only if he sacrifice he's archer skills, otherwise he wont have pt ud

At same way we can remove all fighting classes, cuz mages are making m crits too often, and archers have too powerfull crits.
Then only pp wc ee etc stays, they won't kick ur ass... lol. If you wan't a bullsh1t gameplay like this, there are so many mmorpg like wow or cabal, which u can play for shitty pvp^^

Mby i am wrong but l2 is about teamplay. Not only to make uber he/pal with ic bow, fullbuf in town, and pwn with bot healer on back. Ofc that kind of players would be "nerfed" mostly by that sub system. but tell me how normal pt will suffer from that? Fighter will be still fighting, mages will nuke, healers will heal, buffers will buff. Everything like it should be.

[barni]

And think about oly too. th/pp wo pof, tyr/wc wo cov chant of protection, es/ee wo pow OR ee/es wo imba (fs mostly) es skills. And more combos will apear. Dunno ee/wk, sr/wc, sorc/ol?
Btw. still w8ing for answer about se and major heal;p

[Kerth]

Torn posted in other topic about se heal. Look for it, it's in one of newest  topics here (don't remember which one).

You are right at some points, but still I can't agree fully with you.
I admit, stacksub server is heavily unbalanced with hb skills, but I think it can't be helped. From my knoweagle, even offical, which is ofc non sub and have always newest updates is always very unbalanced. Before c4 necro was pwning there. In c4 sps and necro were pwning. In c6 archers took all.  After it camaels come out from freaking nowhere, and they were rly strong. At hb Sh became the best.. In one (dunno which) gracia PS became rly good, cuz he was only summoner with normal nuke. And now in Epilogue tanks are pwning all, palladin with full buff and dyna set can pwn 6 ppl solo.
If they can't handle it, I rly don't think we can. So looking from this side, dn is really balanced ^^

And about what you said about support sub etc. If now we have "pro" players, who are making chars like glad/pal he/pal etc, if you cut 3rd skills of sub, they will be just more like this players, and less class/support, belive me.

Never ever played Stucksub server so didnt had chance to get pwned by such class ;P
im low rate retail like playa i was owning up c3 when u was playin the sims 1 ^^ so pliz cut the crap off ))
from avatar i can see u're 14-15yo old kiddo

Dude, insulting is not they way. If i want I could answer in same tone, but it's not my point. And I'm 20, not 15, my avatar is ironic to funniest raper in poland.

Ok, about mutants. Some of them are OP, ye. But those Op ones got (and still getting) nefred, like ty/he or pal/destro.
Others are just normal. For ex. if someone hate SR, but want to play sws, he can make HE/SWS, so he have best char he wanted - archer but not weak SR, and support he wanted, which is SWS. Not a big deal heh?

[TankerEk]

Dude, insulting is not they way. If i want I could answer in same tone, but it's not my point. And I'm 20, not 15, my avatar is ironic to funniest raper in poland.

Ok, about mutants. Some of them are OP, ye. But those Op ones got (and still getting) nefred, like ty/he or pal/destro.
Others are just normal. For ex. if someone hate SR, but want to play sws, he can make HE/SWS, so he have best char he wanted - archer but not weak SR, and support he wanted, which is SWS. Not a big deal heh?

My bad , i took that cabal/wow shity pvp or go fight against wc/pp/se as a insult
there is lot to do with nerfing mutants and its easy to screw up gameplay

[eXplander]

mutants ... why not 

[Caliburn]

2. Mutants are bugged or nerfed with 80 lvl cap.

That's not a bug OR a nerf lol. That's called "unintentional balance."

[Kerth]

My bad , i took that cabal/wow shity pvp or go fight against wc/pp/se as a insult
there is lot to do with nerfing mutants and its easy to screw up gameplay

You're right, but if we want delete everything which is not easy to manage, then we should cut of half of l2


@barni

Read last post in this topic
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,215735.0.html

[Toszi]

ad. 4 Yep, so he/pal can have 15 k p def and m def.

You say, you want to nerf he/pals, cuz they can have big p def/m def(this is the only 1 adventage of this char).

You're right, but if we want delete everything which is not easy to manage, then we should cut of half of l2

And after you say that. So you want to nerf the normal chars, but wanna to let make fkin overpowered mutants, lol. This is the nonsence.

As i said before, no mutants=no fkin nerfs, it cant be more easier.

I know, your answer will be: "Take some english lessons.", or smth like this, but if it will be only this, dont post it. I need english only in l2/l2forums, so i realy dont care about it.