After update i noticed that p. attack for warrior/mystic combos are much higher than others.
Could be some old "weapon masteries stack"? Or it's some new feature being implemented to compensate something?
they are aware of this problem and it is being fixed
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 14, 2011, 01:19:30 PM
After update i noticed that p. attack for warrior/mystic combos are much higher than others.
Could be some old "weapon masteries stack"? Or it's some new feature being implemented to compensate something?
[/quote
Did you compared it with same items from HB or you compared it when you had vespers on?
Quote from: TrackZero on June 14, 2011, 03:18:17 PM
Did you compared it with same items from HB or you compared it when you had vespers on?
he/wk icarus bow+f+11, vesper light, 47 STR, ~6.3k p. attack
he/pala vesper bow+f+12, vesper heavy, 48 STR, ~4.4k pattack
Both without buffs (at least weird).
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 14, 2011, 05:38:09 PM
he/wk icarus bow+f+11, vesper light, 47 STR, ~6.3k p. attack
he/pala vesper bow+f+12, vesper heavy, 48 STR, ~4.4k pattack
Both without buffs (at least weird).
Yes its stacking issues, but do me a favor make a test with exactly same gear (without jewels and buffs ) and post again, thanks.
Quote from: TrackZero on June 14, 2011, 05:43:46 PM
Yes its stacking issues, but do me a favor make a test with exactly same gear (without jewels and buffs ) and post again, thanks.
I'll make some tests with 2 orcs:
ty/wc and
ty/de and i'll post screens. Same situation there.
Same gear, same dyes, without/with buffs. (ill try to delete even certificate skills).
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 14, 2011, 05:49:39 PM
I'll make some tests with 2 orcs: ty/wc and ty/de and i'll post screens. Same situation there.
Same gear, same dyes, without/with buffs. (ill try to delete even certificate skills).
test better with humans please
He/wk
He/pl
he/pp
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 14, 2011, 05:49:39 PM
I'll make some tests with 2 orcs: ty/wc and ty/de and i'll post screens. Same situation there.
Same gear, same dyes, without/with buffs. (ill try to delete even certificate skills).
but u forgot say 1 think...
example:
He/wk + he/pp (dunno how pal/he i dont have this sub) got weapon mastery lvl 3 and lvl 42 + bow mastery lvl 52
but....
fokin de/wc got:
- wepon mastery lvl 3
- wepon mastery lvl 42
-wepon mastery lvl 42
I'm sorry that i couldn't test it with humans ( i miss chars and gear), but on next screens its pretty obvious what was previous said.
Both chars are naked, same STR, same lvl, without any certificate skills, same 2 weapons, same buffs.
ty/wc --->dragon grinder/without buffs
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1899/dragongrinderwithoutbuf.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/dragongrinderwithoutbuf.jpg/)
ty/de ---> dragon grinder/without buffs
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1899/dragongrinderwithoutbuf.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/dragongrinderwithoutbuf.jpg/)
ty/wc --->dragon grinder/with buffs
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1949/dragongrinderwithbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/dragongrinderwithbuffs.jpg/)
ty/de --->dragon grinder/with buffs
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1949/dragongrinderwithbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/dragongrinderwithbuffs.jpg/)
ty/wc --->dyna fists/without buffs
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6127/dynafistswithoutbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/dynafistswithoutbuffs.jpg/)
ty/de --->dyna fists/without buffs
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6127/dynafistswithoutbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/146/dynafistswithoutbuffs.jpg/)
ty/wc --->dyna fists/with buffs
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6366/dynafistswithbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/dynafistswithbuffs.jpg/)
ty/de --->dyna fists/with buffs
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6366/dynafistswithbuffs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/dynafistswithbuffs.jpg/)
ty/wc weapon masteries
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3505/1stweaponmastery.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/1stweaponmastery.jpg/)
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6843/2ndweaponmastery.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/2ndweaponmastery.jpg/)
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7775/3rdweaponmastery.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/3rdweaponmastery.jpg/)
ty/de weapon mastery
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3505/1stweaponmastery.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/1stweaponmastery.jpg/)
if any other test is needed with those 2 chars, feel free to ask.
for better test:
dont test just on screens with stats
but
test with pvp damages
example:
he/pal vs he/pp, with same buffs in pvp 1vs1
he/pal will deal less damages, but will stay in ife
he/pp will deal more damages, but will die fast
de/ty will deal less damages than ty/wc(with fist) but more than de/wc(with 2 hands weapon)
lets play a little with big mass pvps and pvps in 1vs1, and we will see after if we need fix or nerf.
PS: dont let nerf hammer go to fast because we will finish to nerf all class, with all the whining on forum
give xlololx C4 times back. xD
Quote from: loXol on June 14, 2011, 07:23:28 PM
for better test:
dont test just on screens with stats
but
test with pvp damages
example:
he/pal vs he/pp, with same buffs in pvp 1vs1
he/pal will deal less damages, but will stay in ife
he/pp will deal more damages, but will die fast
de/ty will deal less damages than ty/wc(with fist) but more than de/wc(with 2 hands weapon)
lets play a little with big mass pvps and pvps in 1vs1, and we will see after if we need fix or nerf.
PS: dont let nerf hammer go to fast because we will finish to nerf all class, with all the whining on forum
I don't get your point.
You need a boost for some combos after this update to balance some things? Weapon masteries stack were deleted ages ago and, i guess, isn't the point to have them back with this new chronicle. Or, if the Gm decides, let it be like it is. I'm just asking for some official position related to this situation.
PS If you need to test pvp damage, lets hit same target with different combos (with same setup/gear), you'll see the difference.
i dont ask a boost after this updates
i ask you to know all the nerf and fix of all skills with this updates before ask nerf of what u knew in the old system.....
this update make new skill and fix, so forget what u knew and try with new fixs before ask nerfs....
Quote from: loXol on June 14, 2011, 09:15:16 PM
i dont ask a boost after this updates
i ask you to know all the nerf and fix of all skills with this updates before ask nerf of what u knew in the old system.....
this update make new skill and fix, so forget what u knew and try with new fixs before ask nerfs....
I was around last time when masteries stacked, with almost same char and i must tell you that after "what you're calling nerf and i call it a fix" pvp system was pretty decent.
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 14, 2011, 09:28:44 PM
I was around last time when masteries stacked
exactly what i say when i tel you, forgot what u knew, and make tests..
i dont say all is good, server dont need fix, i say try in pvp before with new update and ask nerf after...
Any infos related to subject?
What happened exactly is that:
On IL there was 2 weapon masteries skill. One for Human/Elf/D.Elf Mages/Summoners/Buffers and another for Orc Buffers. Sometme GMs nerf it by merging those 2 and by removing the +43% patk boost and keeping from this buff only the ~ +70 patk and +17% matk. The decided ID decided from the 2 same skills to be used was 249 (was Humans/Elf/Delf one). So when we get updated to Gracia and Orc went to learn skill they had already the human with the return of +43% patk boost and learned also the orc one.
So all in all for example orc before had lets say 5000 patk and now: 5000 x 1.43 x 1.43 + 70= 10295 (this is madness!!!! :D)
OK so use all skills and then check p atak use frenzy + zealot and hit soemone with blunt crt and use zealot and hit someone with fist ty/wc
thx bb
ps when u see last time orcs in pvp ? so stop cry its now some fun for orcs :]
Quote from: qwertyzxc on June 19, 2011, 12:34:02 PM
OK so use all skills and then check p atak use frenzy + zealot and hit soemone with blunt crt and use zealot and hit someone with fist ty/wc
thx bb
ps when u see last time orcs in pvp ? so stop cry its now some fun for orcs :]
If you speak to me you say the biggest bs i have ever heared. My OL/WK 80 lvl has on WK stats with dynasty mace+3 1100 patk with pp buff only without Frintezza or Valakas. I guess is totally normal to have same patk with a Dagger char with right?
now TH/PP with ic+11 have more p atk then my SR/TK with same bow ^) more its no +100-200 i say about +2k ^^
Quote from: pulupaker on June 19, 2011, 03:09:47 PM
now TH/PP with ic+11 have more p atk then my SR/TK with same bow ^) more its no +100-200 i say about +2k ^^
qq
Quote from: pulupaker on June 19, 2011, 03:09:47 PM
now TH/PP with ic+11 have more p atk then my SR/TK with same bow ^) more its no +100-200 i say about +2k ^^
th/pp would have more patk even with old masteries xD
finally orc can go pvp , all time was archers / mages (in mostly with sub tank) give for other class some fun...
Quote from: Gnori on June 19, 2011, 06:20:57 PM
finally orc can go pvp , all time was archers / mages (in mostly with sub tank) give for other class some fun...
have fun until there will be he/pp and he/wk everywhere again
5.5k p.atk on unbuffed he/wk with icarus+11 lolz
Quote from: Gnori on June 19, 2011, 06:20:57 PM
finally orc can go pvp , all time was archers / mages (in mostly with sub tank) give for other class some fun...
You really missed the point 'cause you see only your char... try a de/ty with your gear and lets talk then. You think that you have "3 Gracia's balls" to make that 2 x pattack? It's all about
weapon masteries stack, nothing less, nothing more. On pvp you wont fight against my pr/bd with 3.7k pattack unbuffed, but vs. he/wk with 6.3k pattack, unbuffed.
PS I made screens with orcs 'cause i have just those 2 combos for test, nothing personal.
than nerf archers ;D
Quote from: Gnori on June 20, 2011, 12:38:49 PM
than nerf archers ;D
this is something that applies to many different subs not just archers.
Before i do anything, i wait for what will be nerfed or not nerfed, otherwise i create something and cry afterwards about nerf.
good but track still forget about gladiators ... at HB skill attributes doesn't work and my dmg from weapon or skill are to low QQ
Quote from: Ivenn0 on June 20, 2011, 02:12:11 PM
good but track still forget about gladiators ... at HB skill attributes doesn't work and my dmg from weapon or skill are to low QQ
my dmg from skills also low :D
how many ty/ol u saw in our server?:D 1?2?3?
Quote from: Gnori on June 20, 2011, 12:38:49 PM
than nerf archers ;D
i dont wanna see nothing but orcs are bugged not archers:P
Simple He/PP got wepon mastery lvl 3 and weponmastery lvl 42.
Orc got lvl 3, and twice 42 who gives overall 88 lvl wepon mastery lol :D
Anyway ppl buy new vesper sets from donny WITHOUT atribute and now QQ when hit it someone with full atribute weapon :-\
Some classes (fighter/mage classes who plays as fighter, like HE/PP, HE/WK or TY/WC) have stack masteries, like we had in old times.
The main problem isnt just about those stacking masteries, even with higher P. Attack the damage made on pvp's isnt just cause of P. Attack, but mostly cause of Attribute System.
Some days ago i made test with Vesper+A without att and i was hitting around 500 a target, after added 150 on att it went to around 850 on damage. Target didnt had any att to prevent the att i added on weapon.
Now imagine people who is using new DNET's Vesper (most of then still with low att) getting damage from weapons that have FULL ATT on then, even new Vespers being rly cool those lack of ATT is still making old weapons and sets more helpfull atm.
Ofc soon this gonna change cause people will have ATT on their sets and weapons and Vespers will be much more powerfull, but for now the damage is mostly caused by FULL ATT on Weapons and LACK OF ATT on Sets.
This gonna change when people start to open new HB areas to farm for jewels, but people is lazy to open HB new areas so this will take some time.
Quote from: Weezer on June 21, 2011, 03:40:13 PM
Some classes (fighter/mage classes who plays as fighter, like HE/PP, HE/WK or TY/WC) have stack masteries, like we had in old times.
The rest of your post it's just around subject and i can prove it, but isn't the point here.
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 21, 2011, 04:06:16 PM
The rest of your post it's just around subject and i can prove it, but isn't the point here.
The point is that stacking masteries isnt the main problem, but the LACK OF ATT on people's armor, what i was trying to explain in the rest of post.
Quote from: Weezer on June 21, 2011, 04:18:14 PM
The point is that stacking masteries isnt the main problem, but the LACK OF ATT on people's armor, what i was trying to explain in the rest of post.
And you're totally wrong.
Gear a pr/bd and shoot some arrow on any player/any atribute lvl on armour and after that try same setup/shooting practice with a he/wk. You'll see a double damage coming from combo with weapon masteries stack
(same gear/same target, just different chars).
Quote from: TrackZero on June 11, 2011, 10:55:32 pm- Stacking masteries issues Fixed (report if you spot any weird combo , thank you)
So it is fixed more than a week ago, isnt it?
Quote from: Enerilla on June 21, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
So it is fixed more than a week ago, isnt it?
Nope, it isn't.
I believe that the itention of all these is to balance the clases which is a really good idea, but on this particular case there has been a huge mistake.
Have you consider people using anti archer song?
have you consider people using shield with buffs that greatly reduces damage to arrows and other attacks?
Have you consider people using anti archer DANCE that literaly makes an archer useless?
In numbers, yes, pph+he may have higher p atk, but in REAL WORLD SCENARIO, having DNET Heavy Set, Dyes STR+4, P Atk Pot, Icarus Bow +8 Lvl 9 as Attribute, Tattoo of Ogre lvl 4, Quen Cat Buff and ofc dances and COV.
The real damage to a player using ati archer song and bless shield defense goes to: 2,000 "dealing this damage to a mage SPS/EE"
In other hand, the same mage dealing 1k normal damage with 400!!!! WATER ATTRIBUTE DEFENSE AND 1.7K M DEF, so yes, thanks for trying to balance the clases but now archers are pathetic.
I just wonder why GM staff cant do test on their own, create these characters and have them checked in a pvp for testing.
So...I know very well what a stacking mastery is. I've already been nerfed/fixed once, no problem with that. I have a fighter+mage combo as well, a DE/WC.
But! as far as I know Frenzy P.Atk bonus shouldn't have changed (by official website), Frenzy + Power enchant DOES WORK (so around +2% Patk on +15 compared to old rage) and my P.Atk has drastically decreased since HellBound due to your nerf.
If my presumption is right, I would have 2% more P.Atk. I don't have screens but while in HB I had 19,x k with Wep+3 now I have 13,x k P.Atk with Wep+5. So either you have fuc ked up mastery nerf or can fix skill Frenzy. I leave the work up to you.
now it is "fixed" :)
And i have to say, with our new (lower) attack speed, and with low skill dmages the archer is foked again :D
Someone wrote there will be a lot of he/pp and he/wk and so on... And what? Now we have many archer/tank. Are they better for mages?
On last siege i got 18830 dmg from a mage into 2400 mdef. Is that oke? Wasnt the icarus bow nerf enough for u? :DDD
When exactly was this nerf? Coz my tyr/wc has less p atack about 1k than yday? I have joined him to a clan with all skils and have less than wo to?
Quote from: pawlus on June 22, 2011, 11:19:34 AM
When exactly was this nerf? Coz my tyr/wc has less p atack about 1k than yday? I have joined him to a clan with all skils and have less than wo to?
At night.
Quote from: PolSilv3r on June 22, 2011, 11:23:02 AM
At night.
again nerfing... and before even fixing sub system
Quote from: Tukan on June 22, 2011, 10:34:02 AM
So...I know very well what a stacking mastery is. I've already been nerfed/fixed once, no problem with that. I have a fighter+mage combo as well, a DE/WC.
[/quote
buehehe . no balls to say truth ?:P
I got de/wc also and i can sure say this class got bugged wepon masteries. should be lvl 3 and lvl 42, but now u got 1x lvl3 and 2x lvl 42
Quote from: sirSethan on June 22, 2011, 01:25:48 PM
Quote from: Tukan on June 22, 2011, 10:34:02 AM
So...I know very well what a stacking mastery is. I've already been nerfed/fixed once, no problem with that. I have a fighter+mage combo as well, a DE/WC.
[/quote
buehehe . no balls to say truth ?:P
I got de/wc also and i can sure say this class got bugged wepon masteries. should be lvl 3 and lvl 42, but now u got 1x lvl3 and 2x lvl 42
OMG!
It''s horrible!
Tuki, you should been baned for that! >:(
Now funny is only that pp/he got low p atk then in helbound lolz;d - 600 p atk...
There is a fact in here, Mages are indeed over powered, not only because of the damage, but because of the buffs combos.
As you stated, there are many buffs that greatly reduces the damage dealed by a warrior "Specially Archers".
So my question is, whats the point of the "unique DN subclass system"?, We Obviously did a mage+warrior for p atk/atk speed reasons but what is the point now?, we all can make ourself buffers and now a stupid WL+HE has higher P atk. so where is the balance?
GM Staff, PLEASE create yourself some characters and as the other guy stated, buff yourself correctly and test by your own, do the math, 2k m def and 400 attribute resist will never match SONG+Chant of Protection+Greater Shield+Blessed Shield and even worst, DZ anti archer.
Quote from: Tukan on June 22, 2011, 10:34:02 AM
So...I know very well what a stacking mastery is. I've already been nerfed/fixed once, no problem with that. I have a fighter+mage combo as well, a DE/WC.
But! as far as I know Frenzy P.Atk bonus shouldn't have changed (by official website), Frenzy + Power enchant DOES WORK (so around +2% Patk on +15 compared to old rage) and my P.Atk has drastically decreased since HellBound due to your nerf.
If my presumption is right, I would have 2% more P.Atk. I don't have screens but while in HB I had 19,x k with Wep+3 now I have 13,x k P.Atk with Wep+5. So either you have fuc ked up mastery nerf or can fix skill Frenzy. I leave the work up to you.
Up anyway...
Quote from: TrackZero on June 14, 2011, 05:43:46 PM
Yes its stacking issues, but do me a favor make a test with exactly same gear (without jewels and buffs ) and post again, thanks.
Hi Trackzero, could you please tell me where is the stacking issue?, I havent seen it in my passive skills, I only got.
Archer Mastery from Hawkeye
AND
Weapon Mastery from Prophet
Where is the stacking?, if this is stacking then what is the point of stacking subclasses? isnt this supposed to be the unique dragon network subclass system where you can stack subclasses?, then what is the difference between a tank+he, why dont you delete their p def passive skills as well?, isnt it the same scenario?
If the point is reduce the p atk given by this particular subclass combo, why dont you reduce it at 50%?, what you have done literally is killed the previous subclass, our stats are EQUAL to a non subbed hawkeye/warrior, is this a balance?
Thanks
Everybody was crying cos of archers, but think on smtg pls! There are a lots of way to defend yourself against archers. Windstorm, bladestorm, party UD, deflect arrow, donno how many other UD and shield skills. With a proper setup the archers are nothing for u. The archer skills are not working like vicious stance or others are simply hardly nerfed, others have a very low landrate like hamstring, lethal shot. I belive that in the old days, when everybody had maja/DC-robe or old s-grade sets, the archers were pain in the ass, and this mastery nerf was needed. But nowadays, in the time of dyna/Dnet sets and archer resist buffs, it started to be much more weeker than in those days. Now we got a big nerf cos of the icarus bows, so i think this panic with our stacking masteries was much more bigger than it has to be. Pls Track, have another think on it!
Quote from: Enerilla on June 23, 2011, 01:26:12 PM
Everybody was crying cos of archers...
You didn't got the point of this topic at all.
PS I'm playing an archer too (pr/bd) and still made this post, a post that really needs to be closed by moderators.
Quote from: R3mm on June 23, 2011, 04:54:04 AM
Hi Trackzero, could you please tell me where is the stacking issue?, I havent seen it in my passive skills, I only got.
Archer Mastery from Hawkeye
AND
Weapon Mastery from Prophet
Where is the stacking?, if this is stacking then what is the point of stacking subclasses? isnt this supposed to be the unique dragon network subclass system where you can stack subclasses?, then what is the difference between a tank+he, why dont you delete their p def passive skills as well?, isnt it the same scenario?
If the point is reduce the p atk given by this particular subclass combo, why dont you reduce it at 50%?, what you have done literally is killed the previous subclass, our stats are EQUAL to a non subbed hawkeye/warrior, is this a balance?
Thanks
The fact that they have disable when you play on HE stats the Magician movement passive of PP which should reduce you 20% attack speed when you wear Light or Heavy and the 2nd fact that they disable from weapon mastery passive the -8 accuracy penalty when you play with bow i guess it doesn't mean anything to you?
Quote from: R3mm on June 23, 2011, 04:54:04 AM
Hi Trackzero, could you please tell me where is the stacking issue?, I havent seen it in my passive skills, I only got.
Archer Mastery from Hawkeye
AND
Weapon Mastery from Prophet
Where is the stacking?
agree :P
Only orc was bugged
Quote from: BRexoo7 on June 23, 2011, 02:14:06 PM
You didn't got the point of this topic at all.
Sure :D
Ok stacking masteries were fixed I understand but why the hell we got now less p.atak and less a.speed than in hb ???In hb the stacking masteries were fixed to but now the p.atak and a.speed isn't the same as it was in hb it's lower wtf.It's less with 600-800 p.atak than in hb,about a.speed can't rember exactly maybe someone knows, really nice job.
Agree. Now p atak is lower than on hb. About a speed is "like on official" and ok maybe i would be good but this p atak should be a bit fixed (be the same as in hb)
Quote from: pawlus on June 23, 2011, 11:03:01 PM
Agree. Now p atak is lower than on hb. About a speed is "like on official" and ok maybe i would be good but this p atak should be a bit fixed (be the same as in hb)
agree i got less +/- 700 p atk then i got in HB
all got less p atk coz foking talisman for p atk ITS NOT WORKING
Quote from: kalu on June 24, 2011, 08:27:16 AM
all got less p atk coz foking talisman for p atk ITS NOT WORKING
workin :P But now u must know how use it and... gives on +20 p atk :o
+20 p atk its like worm piss
BTW all of you that have passive might lvl 10 forget the +10%. Since Gracia final all aguments especially the passive one's are facked up (Passive might lvl 10 now gives exactly +17 patk ;D,same for empower lvl 10). So the best damage options for augment now is INT+1 for mages and STR+1for fighters).
Quote from: sirSethan on June 24, 2011, 09:22:53 AM
workin :P But now u must know how use it and... gives on +20 p atk :o
OMFG, how the hell should i use it to reach that amazing +20 pattack? Enlighten me pls :O
YEP! should i use it on my head? Or maybe stand on my hands and shoot arrows with my ass?
Quote from: Javardsnegger on June 24, 2011, 02:19:17 PM
YEP! should i use it on my head? Or maybe stand on my hands and shoot arrows with my ass?
You need 'sir' in your nick.
Quote from: Tukan on June 22, 2011, 10:34:02 AM
So...I know very well what a stacking mastery is. I've already been nerfed/fixed once, no problem with that. I have a fighter+mage combo as well, a DE/WC.
But! as far as I know Frenzy P.Atk bonus shouldn't have changed (by official website), Frenzy + Power enchant DOES WORK (so around +2% Patk on +15 compared to old rage) and my P.Atk has drastically decreased since HellBound due to your nerf.
If my presumption is right, I would have 2% more P.Atk. I don't have screens but while in HB I had 19,x k with Wep+3 now I have 13,x k P.Atk with Wep+5. So either you have fuc ked up mastery nerf or can fix skill Frenzy. I leave the work up to you.
Bump, because crying is the best solution to get attention here ^^
One more thing though, I calculated Attack Power talisman before even posting my first reply here.
Quote from: Enerilla on June 24, 2011, 01:48:28 PM
OMFG, how the hell should i use it to reach that amazing +20 pattack? Enlighten me pls :O
if u dont know talisman works now as... active skill when u use it