You give great answers that look good on paper and then lock threads...
I will change the QQ as it looks like it will get us nowhere. So , can you GMs remodel turn undead and other lethal pve skills and make them custom like other servers?
That would make everyone happy and wouldn't hurt your ego.
Definitely not
In case someone missed the other post (wasnt locked by me):
Quote from: Pebamama on January 28, 2014, 09:09:42 PM
Also if you try pagans here you will not land any lethals too . Here you will only be able to land lethals when you reach level 80 and enchant the skill +13 and even then you will have a low chance , i know , sounds pretty retarded , but this is what is going on on tarantula....
Is enough to make it +1.
The skill at level 10 have MAGICAL level 74
The skill enchanted +1 have MAGICAL level 76
The skill raises by 1 MAGICAL level every +3 enchants (at +13 becomes level 80)
When you are using an
offensive skill toward a target (any), nearly 90% of the time
is NOT YOUR level that is compared against your target but is the MAGICAL level of the skill.
To land a lethal your skill MUST NOT be more than 5 levels inferior compared to your target level.So, if your target monster/player is level 80, the skill MUST be at least level 75.What means for Pagan Temple?
That you just have to enchant it to +1, it becomes level 76, and the skill lands in Pagan Temple too.
If you dont, lethals will not land BUT the fear effect will still do.
Conceptually the skill is simply not strong enough to damage the opponent as is too low level compared to him
Why does this mechanics makes sense?
Because else there would be no reason to level up skills. Banish Seraph for example (same mechanics) have same 50% lethal rate since lv1, what changes is the skill's magical level only!
Same for Turn Undead, at lv9 already reaches the 30% lethal rate so without this system would be barely useful to even take lv10.
Does it applies to all other lethals too?
YES. This rule applies also to all other possible lethals ingame.
For example: a TH can't lethal a lv80 opponent with a lv1 skill. At least a +1 enchant would be required for this purpose.
Higher enchanting, as it reduces the difference between the target level and the skill level, does also mitigate the penality (up to 0% penality when the skill have same or higher level than the target)
How do i know the magical level of a skill?
Is the level at which you can learn/upgrade it.
All skills learned before 3rd class becomes magical level 76 with +1 enchant. (and gains 1 extra magical level every +3 enchants)
What would happen if we change this system to follow the one of the "other servers"?
That a level "put_a_random_number" player with a level 1 lethal skill could kill any mob/boss/player with a lethal.
This also means that, at level 56, you could use turn undead lv1 (magical level lv56) to farm pagan with a 10% lethal rate toward lv80 monsters.
It does not make sense and is not fair for the other classes.
Quote from: =drake= on January 29, 2014, 05:46:04 AM
Definitely not
In case someone missed the other post (wasnt locked by me):
Is enough to make it +1.
The skill at level 10 have MAGICAL level 74
The skill enchanted +1 have MAGICAL level 76
The skill raises by 1 MAGICAL level every +3 enchants (at +13 becomes level 80)
When you are using an offensive skill toward a target (any), nearly 90% of the time is NOT YOUR level that is compared against your target but is the MAGICAL level of the skill.
To land a lethal your skill MUST NOT be more than 5 levels inferior compared to your target level.
So, if your target monster/player is level 80, the skill MUST be at least level 75.
What means for Pagan Temple?
That you just have to enchant it to +1, it becomes level 76, and the skill lands in Pagan Temple too.
If you dont, lethals will not land BUT the fear effect will still do.
Conceptually the skill is simply not strong enough to damage the opponent as is too low level compared to him
Why does this mechanics makes sense?
Because else there would be no reason to level up skills. Banish Seraph for example (same mechanics) have same 50% lethal rate since lv1, what changes is the skill's magical level only!
Same for Turn Undead, at lv9 already reaches the 30% lethal rate so without this system would be barely useful to even take lv10.
Does it applies to all other lethals too?
YES. This rule applies also to all other possible lethals ingame.
For example: a TH can't lethal a lv80 opponent with a lv1 skill. At least a +1 enchant would be required for this purpose.
Higher enchanting, as it reduces the difference between the target level and the skill level, does also mitigate the penality (up to 0% penality when the skill have same or higher level than the target)
How do i know the magical level of a skill?
Is the level at which you can learn/upgrade it.
All skills learned before 3rd class becomes magical level 76 with +1 enchant. (and gains 1 extra magical level every +3 enchants)
What would happen if we change this system to follow the one of the "other servers"?
That a level "put_a_random_number" player with a level 1 lethal skill could kill any mob/boss/player with a lethal.
This also means that, at level 56, you could use turn undead lv1 (magical level lv56) to farm pagan with a 10% lethal rate toward lv80 monsters.
It does not make sense and is not fair for the other classes.
we sayd that enchant rate is focked , u changed it , we say that lethal chance is focked u must change it , else u lose us.
i never seen server with lethal like this with lvl difference , keep ur opinion and u lose players GL!
Quote from: thusard on January 29, 2014, 06:39:35 AM
we sayd that enchant rate is focked , u changed it , we say that lethal chance is focked u must change it , else u lose us.
i never seen server with lethal like this with lvl difference , keep ur opinion and u lose players GL!
Definitely lethal system will not change.
Quote from: thusard on January 29, 2014, 06:39:35 AM
we say that lethal chance is focked u must change it , else u lose us.
epic logic & adios
This is correct system from interlude, 1st thing i do after finish 3rd is enchant lethal from bp and go exp in pagan. It was always like this, non enchanted lethal don't land there, thats all.
Quote from: =drake= on January 29, 2014, 05:46:04 AM
Definitely not
In case someone missed the other post (wasnt locked by me):
Is enough to make it +1.
The skill at level 10 have MAGICAL level 74
The skill enchanted +1 have MAGICAL level 76
The skill raises by 1 MAGICAL level every +3 enchants (at +13 becomes level 80)
When you are using an offensive skill toward a target (any), nearly 90% of the time is NOT YOUR level that is compared against your target but is the MAGICAL level of the skill.
To land a lethal your skill MUST NOT be more than 5 levels inferior compared to your target level.
So, if your target monster/player is level 80, the skill MUST be at least level 75.
What means for Pagan Temple?
That you just have to enchant it to +1, it becomes level 76, and the skill lands in Pagan Temple too.
If you dont, lethals will not land BUT the fear effect will still do.
Conceptually the skill is simply not strong enough to damage the opponent as is too low level compared to him
Why does this mechanics makes sense?
Because else there would be no reason to level up skills. Banish Seraph for example (same mechanics) have same 50% lethal rate since lv1, what changes is the skill's magical level only!
Same for Turn Undead, at lv9 already reaches the 30% lethal rate so without this system would be barely useful to even take lv10.
Does it applies to all other lethals too?
YES. This rule applies also to all other possible lethals ingame.
For example: a TH can't lethal a lv80 opponent with a lv1 skill. At least a +1 enchant would be required for this purpose.
Higher enchanting, as it reduces the difference between the target level and the skill level, does also mitigate the penality (up to 0% penality when the skill have same or higher level than the target)
How do i know the magical level of a skill?
Is the level at which you can learn/upgrade it.
All skills learned before 3rd class becomes magical level 76 with +1 enchant. (and gains 1 extra magical level every +3 enchants)
What would happen if we change this system to follow the one of the "other servers"?
That a level "put_a_random_number" player with a level 1 lethal skill could kill any mob/boss/player with a lethal.
This also means that, at level 56, you could use turn undead lv1 (magical level lv56) to farm pagan with a 10% lethal rate toward lv80 monsters.
It does not make sense and is not fair for the other classes.
yea... so shock blast lv77 hardly landing on lv60 chars, mean its has to be enchanted in future chronicles right? :D
Quote from: Peorexo on January 29, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
yea... so shock blast lv77 hardly landing on lv60 chars, mean its has to be enchanted in future chronicles right? :D
shock blast primary effect is the overhit attack that ignores shield (and target removal)
the secondary effect (stun and reduced pdef/mdef) have 40% land rate, CON based (for extra weaknesses/resistances) and is shock based (for extra weaknesses/resistances).
additionally the skill is level 77 (extra resistances if target is level 78 or more, 1% less landing rate every level over 77)
Quote from: =drake= on January 29, 2014, 10:10:01 AM
shock blast primary effect is the overhit attack that ignores shield (and target removal)
the secondary effect (stun and reduced pdef/mdef) have 40% land rate, CON based (for extra weaknesses/resistances) and is shock based (for extra weaknesses/resistances).
additionally the skill is level 77 (extra resistances if target is level 78 or more, 1% less landing rate every level over 77)
I know how this skill works, im just saying that i casted this vs lv70bishop w/o con dyes, and it land under this 40%, not saying to use it vs another WL on 75lv~ when it resulted in 1/5
We have tested this last night , i wanted to explain you. But i collapsed on the keyboard. Drake said pretty much everything, enchanting skill DOES matter a lot. Thats why it exists, try ans you will see.
P.S ChujoZord from Excilium was online when tests were made as witness.
Quote from: thusard on January 29, 2014, 06:39:35 AM
we cried our asses off that enchant rate is focked , u changed it , we now cry that lethal chance is focked u must change it , else u lose us and no more QQing on forum.
i never seen server with lethal that doesnt land 100% and with lvl difference , keep ur opinion and u lose carebears like us GL!
:O
Quote from: =drake= on January 29, 2014, 05:46:04 AM
What would happen if we change this system to follow the one of the "other servers"?
That a level "put_a_random_number" player with a level 1 lethal skill could kill any mob/boss/player with a lethal.
This also means that, at level 56, you could use turn undead lv1 (magical level lv56) to farm pagan with a 10% lethal rate toward lv80 monsters.
It does not make sense and is not fair for the other classes.
You do realise that you can only go to pagans at 73 lvl? Also you can't be summoned there. This was the whole point of this skill in L2. I mean , whole areas with only xHP undeads or angels aren't coincidence , this is how it was supposed to be.
Also calling that unfair? L2 wasn't created without any logic behind it , all the classes can exp somewhere , but the areas with undead vanish , and the only way to level up is with lethals on those specific created areas with xHP mobs (pagans/rift).
This game respected its subscribers (back in the day) and didn't punish people because they had different playstyles . Besides the 100% support classes that can't level up themselves , every other class was able to reach a high level solo . Having Artur say that BPs and EEs should only level up with a group is a disrespect for the fundamentals of the game .
PS : BPs and EEs are screwed.
Quote from: thusard on January 29, 2014, 06:39:35 AM
we sayd that enchant rate is focked , u changed it , we say that lethal chance is focked u must change it , else u lose us.
i never seen server with lethal like this with lvl difference , keep ur opinion and u lose players GL!
Lethal chance isn't freaked , if there would be 100% lethal chance, whats the point? By default it isn't 100% either, its exactly how it is, if i am wrong show me some argumented from interlude times link that says different.
Its not about player level difference , it about skill level difference . You cant expect that lv74 skill (power=30) 100% lethal the lvl 80 mobs . But there is a solution for it, after you learn max level of the skill level=10 , enchant it with +power +1 = 76 +4 = 77 +7 = 78 +10 = 79 +13 = 80
http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1400
"Strikes fear into undead for 20 seconds, causing them to flee. Consumes 3 Spirit Ore. Lethal Strike is possible. "
possible doesnt mean 100%.
Else if you want to do it in your (custom way) and set 100% lethal on max skills level, why we then have enchanting system of skills implemented?
And not its not normal to be level 74 and to go to pagans where mobs are lvl80 (red) for you and kill them with 1 shoot, sorry but this is just wrong. Skill level difference 1-2 for easy killing. I have tried lvl 75 mobs in imperial with lv10 skill and it lethals just fine. So if you want more lethal land, level the default skill level to the max and then put some +power on it.
Braking the game concept just because "its hard" is not a valid argument sorry.
Quote from: Pebamama on January 29, 2014, 03:42:23 PM
You do realise that you can only go to pagans at 73 lvl? Also you can't be summoned there. This was the whole point of this skill in L2. I mean , whole areas with only xHP undeads or angels aren't coincidence , this is how it was supposed to be.
Also calling that unfair? L2 wasn't created without any logic behind it , all the classes can exp somewhere , but the areas with undead vanish , and the only way to level up is with lethals on those specific created areas with xHP mobs (pagans/rift).
This game respected its subscribers (back in the day) and didn't punish people because they had different playstyles . Besides the 100% support classes that can't level up themselves , every other class was able to reach a high level solo . Having Artur say that BPs and EEs should only level up with a group is a disrespect for the fundamentals of the game .
PS : BPs and EEs are screwed.
What about PP? Where is their class specific xp area?
Quote from: igi on January 29, 2014, 03:48:50 PM
What about PP? Where is their class specific xp area?
Quote from: Pebamama on January 29, 2014, 03:42:23 PM
Besides the 100% support classes that can't level up themselves , every other class was able to reach a high level solo .
PP is a 100% support class.
So just to be clear, after lvl 72, EE's and bishops can fu** themselfs and have to get in some clan that only acepts constant parties, or we just quit the server untill every lil clan reaches lvl 72...
Can't you(by that logic) reduce pagans mob levels so AT LEAST a EE lvl 74 can get some exp there?
Quote from: NunoPitbull on January 29, 2014, 06:35:07 PM
So just to be clear, after lvl 72, EE's and bishops can fu** themselfs and have to get in some clan that only acepts constant parties, or we just quit the server untill every lil clan reaches lvl 72...
Can't you(by that logic) reduce pagans mob levels so AT LEAST a EE lvl 74 can get some exp there?
try imperial tomb entrance :D
Quote from: Peorexo on January 29, 2014, 06:39:56 PM
try imperial tomb entrance :D
Its not funny dude im sittin on 74 for the last 3 dayz.....runing around zones trying to lethal some ass...but no.Take some actions.
- stop cry, they will NOT increase land rate only because few people cry nonstop.
- find party. Go party exp to DO/disciples/FoG/IT/MoS.
- or stfu and leave server.
- and congratz on your epic logic to play support class solo. I DEMAND ADMINS TO BOOST P.ATK and ATK. SPEED TO SWORDSINGER CLASS BECAUSE IT KILLS MOSTERS IN IMPERIAL TOMB VERY SLOW!
If someone want to be so kind and list the mobs for [level support class] = [level mob] so they can level solo, altou , i dont understand why support class levels solo in the end, thats why it is called support.
Anyhow if not, ill research by myself, i just need find some time after recent happening.
Thank you
I can do that:ee/bp guide on DN
1st.Get to ~60 ---Field of massacre (till u see Doom Knights in ur sleep)
2nd.Get to ~69 ---Try to get to the first room with Malruk Lord/Berserker in loa
(spend 5-6 days worth of playtime there) untill u reach 73 for pagans
3rd.And most interesting.U find urself in pagan 73 barely any cash for Consumables
and pretty much Screwd.
4th. U find urself arguing with trolls about ur faith on Forum.
Quote from: j1kata on January 30, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
I can do that:ee/bp guide on DN
1st.Get to ~60 ---Field of massacre (till u see Doom Knights in ur sleep)
2nd.Get to ~69 ---Try to get to the first room with Malruk Lord/Berserker in loa
(spend 5-6 days worth of playtime there) untill u reach 73 for pagans
3rd.And most interesting.U find urself in pagan 73 barely any cash for Consumables
and pretty much Screwd.
4th. U find urself arguing with trolls about ur faith on Forum.
5t. You realize its a team game and u get a party to farm.
4th. U find urself arguing with trolls about ur faith on Forum.
Quote from: vaiper on January 30, 2014, 05:59:39 PM
5t. You realize its a team game and u get a party to farm.
Im gona ignore this one...
From Behalf of the Healers/Tanks around here..We demand changes.
Quote from: j1kata on January 30, 2014, 06:13:25 PM
4th. U find urself arguing with trolls about ur faith on Forum.Im gona ignore this one...
From Behalf of the Healers/Tanks around here..We demand changes.
funny thing, on phx il serv turn undead worked exaclty like here, and on most server i did play (not some x99999 l2j sh1t) w/o enchant on turn undead u had hard time lethaling high level mobs
Quote from: Peorexo on January 30, 2014, 06:16:11 PM
funny thing, on phx il serv turn undead worked exaclty like here, and on most server i did play (not some x99999 l2j sh1t) w/o enchant on turn undead u had hard time lethaling high level mobs
1. Completely Off topic
2. Ur so wrong bout the mentioned server.
Quote from: vaiper on January 30, 2014, 05:59:39 PM
5t. You realize its a team game and u get a party to farm.
+1000
Get a good clan.
I'm SpS and I always party with a bishop from my clan, even if he doesnt have recharge or great buffs. Why? Because thats what clan mates are for.
I remember old IL, using my sps/ee (Arcana mace, same lvl mob) I used to do Half Kills a lot (like 1 in 3-4 mobs), but Lethals was a bit rare.
Quote from: j1kata on January 30, 2014, 06:13:25 PM
4th. U find urself arguing with trolls about ur faith on Forum.Im gona ignore this one...
From Behalf of the Healers/Tanks around here..We demand changes.
I play support clases and tank and I find u an idiot woth those demands. Go back to your l2 x9999 brasil and stop that cry.
Please dont spam this topic with crap.
Serous suggestions/changes only.
Get a part and exp with party, that's the solution for u.
Not a single healer detected here.Im not sure are they just blind or still low lvl to realise whats more to come after ~73.
if u want undead go to rift
btw NcSoft nerfed lethal-undead because supports could easily power level a party more than a destro full buff/gear
turn undead is just a way to avoid a bad pull when support are on the way to die in undead zone, not a way to solo.....
Quote from: Vendettacz on January 30, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
- stop cry, they will NOT increase land rate only because few people cry nonstop.
- find party. Go party exp to DO/disciples/FoG/IT/MoS.
- or stfu and leave server.
- and congratz on your epic logic to play support class solo. I DEMAND ADMINS TO BOOST P.ATK and ATK. SPEED TO SWORDSINGER CLASS BECAUSE IT KILLS MOSTERS IN IMPERIAL TOMB VERY SLOW!
go freak yourself in the brain :) this class has been provided this particular skill for a reason. Admins won't change anything, but let me tell you something EE's and BP's were able exp ALONE for a decade with such spell, so shut up about playing in pt. There isn't any single PLAYER who never played solo..
Quote from: lNecropsy on January 30, 2014, 06:31:57 PM
I remember old IL, using my sps/ee (Arcana mace, same lvl mob) I used to do Half Kills a lot (like 1 in 3-4 mobs), but Lethals was a bit rare.
half kills? with turn undead?! on IL?!?!?!
I tested Turn Undead today in LoA on 66vl, 67vl, 68vl, 69vl x4/x5 HP mobs.
I myself was 64-65vl at the time. Turn Undead lvl 5.
I got pretty good land rates.
On two occasions I got 3 lethals in a row and 2-3 times 2 lethals in a row (all on white mobs)
I succeeded lethaling only 1 yellow mob.
Lethal rand rate was I could say on every 7-10 mob which imo is pretty awesome.
So in conclusion Turn Undead works just fine.
U r just trying to kill 80vl mobs with a 73vl char...with a lethal strike.....which has 20% success rate on a mob your lvl.
p.s. Just to point out Turn Undead lvl 5 has less chance to land than lvl 10 and it worked fine for me. (U can draw a conclusion by yourself from this point on)
Those r my arguments, Thank you very much