http://www.dragon-network.net/stats/tar/tattoos.php
I noticed few tattoos are not really used, in particular the ones giving protection against debuffs: Hold, Bleed, Sleep, Fear.
Also few other tattoos are quite underrated.
Why?
Discuss and, eventually, write your considerations/ideas.
because these are useless, and there are more useful tattoos.
IMO there should be some changes about tattoos.
You made a possibility to refill tatoos, but to do so you need to pvp on garden of eva and today I went there to do so, no1 was there. So, since not so many ppl are going to GoE pvp zone, maybe make some alternative option to refill tattoos?
Also, you said that you are opened for suggestion about lethal tattoos, there was some ideas, but I haven't seen your action regarding it :)
last, but not least, latest nerf on tatoos was too high. I am a recharger and still I believe this nerf wasn't good for anyone.
Ofc you can say that on official there is no other option to boost mana regen than by either dye's or rechargers or elixirs, but this is a stacksub server and we use more skills, more mana and I believe we like little help from those tattoos :)
thanks.
tattoos are l2j. please remove. gracias
Quote from: karupt on March 05, 2014, 12:48:06 AM
tattoos are l2j. please remove. gracias
dmg reduction too, substack too, ur not official too so gtfo.
Quote from: emissary on March 05, 2014, 12:25:27 AM
You made a possibility to refill tatoos, but to do so you need to pvp on garden of eva and today I went there to do so, no1 was there. So, since not so many ppl are going to GoE pvp zone, maybe make some alternative option to refill tattoos?
marks should be dropping worldwide imo, in GOE 2(or more)x amount.
Quote from: Peorexo on March 05, 2014, 12:48:48 AM
dmg reduction too, substack too, ur not official too so gtfo.
+1
Quote from: Abruzzi on March 05, 2014, 01:08:10 AM
I see after one month "the only server that pays you" made me fking rich. Donations are ON and still no info for this option. Or its like "auto pick"?
N00b come tommorow to saints again
Dont pk me when im train , shithead
Quote from: pmkaboo on March 05, 2014, 12:52:26 AM
marks should be dropping worldwide imo, in GOE 2(or more)x amount.
Nice idea!
Quote from: 8kjupx3u on March 05, 2014, 01:13:38 AM
N00b come tommorow to saints again
Dont pk me when im train , shithead
You mad?
I'm also waiting for the way we are to be paid. With the tank current situation, no use in playing what I like anymore anyway
Its an easy question.
To understand why debuff resistance tattoos are unpopular first lets take a look at tattoos by their popularity.
1) First with huge advantage are tattoos that boost mana, nothing surprising here, faster leveling is on the first place no matter what and mana means a lot here.
2) Second are tattoos that boost damage. Bigger damage helps to level up faster just like bigger mana pool. Also damage most of the time is a priority thing for people in pvp. Players like to get *frags* so they go for damage, also most classes are damage dealers and many important things in the game depend on your damage output (raid bosses, barakiel, etc). Healers also would like much more faster casting speed than anything else.
3) The rest tattoos are extremely unpopular.
Assassin tattoo - theoretically it boosts damage output, but the game gives plenty of ways to increase crit and with bow/dagger you can easily reach max crit. Moreover most fighter classes would prefer monk tattoos to use abilities and attack faster, speed is very important and perhaps few dagger and bow users would like crit damage more for bigger burst in pvp where the burst damage is important.
Tattoo of sniper - same issue as assassin tattoo plus its very unlikely to find a target with high evasion.
All kinds of defensive tattoos - defensive tattoos have a niche use. They protect only from one source of damage: physical or magical. If you have tattoo of monk you are going to kill faster everything as a fighter. If you have tattoo of golem you are going to take less damage only from fighters while for mages your tattoo slot is non-existant or moreover crippling you if you dont remove it since tattoo of golem lowers your other stats in exchange for giving more p.def.
Now debuff resistance tattoos. If defensive tattoos are niche then debuff resistance tattoos are super mega niche. They dont have a general use, for example tattoo of hold resistance is going to help you against whom? Buffer classes only? Tattoos of sleep resistance will help you only against bishops and elders since nukers dont rely on their sleep that much due to long cast time. You'd rather want to do more damage so that those classes cant outheal it than try to resist their root/sleep.
Moreover you handicap yourself if you dont use a damage tattoo since for example a nuker subbed to healer/buffer and using a c.spd tattoo is going to deal damage faster, heal itself faster and cast root/sleep on you faster, while if you use a debuff resist tattoo you sacrifice a tattoo slot to possibly resist a skill that your enemy may or may not use.
Bleed tattoo is a troll, fear tattoo is the same as sleep/hold plus fear is much more rare.
Quote from: =drake= on March 05, 2014, 12:08:41 AM
http://www.dragon-network.net/stats/tar/tattoos.php
I noticed few tattoos are not really used, in particular the ones giving protection against debuffs: Hold, Bleed, Sleep, Fear.
Also few other tattoos are quite underrated.
Why?
Discuss and, eventually, write your considerations/ideas.
i think about this tatto only on olys ( hold sleep) fear and bleed are useless
Quote from: =drake= on March 05, 2014, 12:08:41 AM
http://www.dragon-network.net/stats/tar/tattoos.php
I noticed few tattoos are not really used, in particular the ones giving protection against debuffs: Hold, Bleed, Sleep, Fear.
Also few other tattoos are quite underrated.
Why?
Discuss and, eventually, write your considerations/ideas.
The tatoo you mentioned... nobody knows what it actually does.
What debuffs? Is for example "engantle" one of those debuffs? Seal of suspension? Or is silence too?
That one I would like to pin-point out. Me and most people around me report extra high landrate of silence no matter what. (along with other instant-kill like debuffs like anchor). Will some + few % debuff resistance help there? None knows and none is even trying that, cause they cost mats aka money to get to lvl 4 aka something relevant. But I doubt it since full tateo + tallum robe for mdef + buffs + mdef songs + mental and still guy with random +3 homu lands most of his silence attempts so I see something wrong there, and I doubt that tattoo would fix it.
If it affects only those skills you mentioned then i call it useless. None would ever trade speed, casting speed, or power for this.
Quote from: Abruzzi on March 05, 2014, 01:08:10 AM
I see after one month "the only server that pays you" made me fking rich. Donations are ON and still no info for this option. Or its like "auto pick"?
Complaining again? Firstly, autopick with no range is ridiculous for this kind of server. Ranged pick for adena only is fair enough.
About other part of your post, by monday i will reveal all the info regarding it. However the point of that system isnt to get RICH nor that few of you go to greedy level 99. We will tend to cover more players with that feature. In addition, you should also consider at least 2 facts; server isnt even running 2 months; unexpected and extra costs as well as the monthly bill needed to maintan everything after recent events.
I will post all the infos by Monday , so you will know all the rules about it, how and when.
Stick to the subject of the topic and dont change course of it.
Thank you
Or mby 2 tatoo slots, 1 for offensive ones (cast/atk spd, p/m atk, mana regen-must be here, cannot stuck with tatoos like +cast spd etc.) and the second for deffensive ones (p/m def, resists, evansion etc).
Quote from: Dzadro on March 05, 2014, 01:27:21 PM
Or mby 2 tatoo slots, 1 for offensive ones (cast/atk spd, p/m atk, mana regen-must be here, cannot stuck with tatoos like +cast spd etc.) and the second for deffensive ones (p/m def, resists, evansion etc).
thats bad idea overall, becouse 2x tatto lv4emp is just too powerfull
Easy solution:
Remove the tattoos, give back the mana pots(no other custom pots), and that's all...
2 tatoo bars, and make it tradeable,
+ make item drops when u get killed even if u not PK.
ADD Dwarf possible to take other subs then dwars....
Check the distance betwen shops, and make a skill "BSOETOWN" wich works only in town and it teleport you near GK ( reuse 1 hour )
GM cheerleader ;)
And who said all have to be used.
Quote from: Blizzer on March 05, 2014, 03:08:18 PM
And who said all have to be used.
Well, they should all be interesting thats why some of them that are totally underrated requires some rework and i opened this thread exactly for that...
Quote from: TheBlackPhoenix on March 05, 2014, 03:11:47 PM
That's why Admins hates me and i already left the server..... ::) ::)
We hate players? O_o
Something is badly flawed with you guys' logic. And stick to the topic please! (or go ingame if you wanna fight!)
Quote from: TheBlackPhoenix on March 05, 2014, 03:39:05 PM
Ahahaha (non mi venivano altri termini)
Anyway can you tell me what do you think about 2x slot [one for "normal" tatoos and one for Resist(poison, bleed etc..)-Tattoos] ?
We physically dont have extra slots to use right now.
You either have to put all CC resists on 1 tattoo, and give it minimal or zero downsides, or mix the resists with existing, already widely used tattoos. Noone will pick some CC resist, which is extremely situational, over manareg or dmg increase, which are always good.
Quote from: TheBlackPhoenix on March 05, 2014, 04:17:11 PM
May i ask why in c4 it was possible to have 2x slots? It's about Client?
And nother thing: If there would be slot one day, would you be positive about my suggestion? Or you think it is too "op" ?
you left? finally bot mastah decided not to bot anymore?! I believe so many ppl prayed for this day to happen, small tear in my eye just appeared :) there is just one more thing, please vanish from this forum too:)
thank you from debts of my heart!
Quote from: Csenky on March 05, 2014, 04:11:03 PM
You either have to put all CC resists on 1 tattoo, and give it minimal or zero downsides, or mix the resists with existing, already widely used tattoos. Noone will pick some CC resist, which is extremely situational, over manareg or dmg increase, which are always good.
Exactly that. I see enemy OL running in the middle of the party to cast his debuffs = Tattoo against that would be good, but it must be useful stats wise. like -10% chance he would land these is not enough at all. If it was -50% then maybe, maybe... And that I consider all of those, not just against root for example. There are worse things this tatoo does not address thus I would not wear it as it is.
I suggest taking example of RB jewels when making the stats of tattos, that way players will have a lot more choice, in other words -
A combination of attack stat and a defense stat.
You could have + attack speed and stun resistance, - something else,
and so on. That way players can not only consider the attack stat of the tattoo, but the defense stat as well (some don't like to be stunned, other paralyzed/rooted, etc)
Everyone likes an increase of the atack stat, so unless you are playing a pure tank, that's what you would go for - as an attack class player I would not consider anything else, except for something that will make me hit harder. And maybe stun resistance for pvp.
Edit: furthermore, the negative on tattoos makes them worthless a lot of the time, eg sacrificing p.atk for attack speed - only a dagger user would do that. Please consider lessening the negative effects to make it worth it, for example +4% something, -2% something else. Why bother spending mats otherwise when the effect will be minimal?
Edit 2: make them cost more adena instead of mats on higher levels. A LOT of adena. Maybe that could keep inflation down a bit.
Quote from: silent_death on March 05, 2014, 04:47:43 PM
Edit: furthermore, the negative on tattoos makes them worthless a lot of the time, eg sacrificing p.atk for attack speed - only a dagger user would do that. Please consider lessening the negative effects to make it worth it, for example +4% something, -2% something else. Why bother spending mats otherwise when the effect will be minimal?
+10%/-10% doesnt mean u get minimal or no effect... this would only happen if u had for example 1000 p/matk and 1000 atk/cast speed with which u get more or less the same dps but for example +10% matk / -10% cast. speed on a SH would mean *+600 matk / -100 cast speed and on sps would be opposite which means sh will get more dps while sps will get less...
* numbers r not official, its only an example.
Quote from: igi on March 05, 2014, 05:03:06 PM
+10%/-10% doesnt mean u get minimal or no effect... this would only happen if u had for example 1000 p/matk and 1000 atk/cast speed with which u get more or less the same dps but for example +10% matk / -10% cast. speed on a SH would mean *+600 matk / -100 cast speed and on sps would be opposite which means sh will get more dps while sps will get less...
* numbers r not official, its only an example.
I completely understand, but nonetless the positive effect is marginalised*, as that 100 cast speed would still increase your overall damage per second by an amount which is quite hard to calculate, also this obviously isn't a pvp server and characters are nowhere near attack speed or casting speed cap, so they would not sacrifice the speed so readily
Quote from: silent_death on March 05, 2014, 05:09:55 PM
I completely understand, but nonetless the positive effect is marginalised*, as that 100 cast speed would still increase your overall damage per second by an amount which is quite hard to calculate, also this obviously isn't a pvp server and characters are nowhere near attack speed or casting speed cap, so they would not sacrifice the speed so readily
All l2 servers r pvp servers....
And getting 100 cast speed for the cost of 600 matk gives u less dps not more....
Quote from: LadyZENITH on March 05, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
Exactly that. I see enemy OL running in the middle of the party to cast his debuffs = Tattoo against that would be good, but it must be useful stats wise. like -10% chance he would land these is not enough at all. If it was -50% then maybe, maybe... And that I consider all of those, not just against root for example. There are worse things this tatoo does not address thus I would not wear it as it is.
Stage 4 is 40% and empowered is 60% resist.
Usually this extra 60% means immunity.
Quote from: igi on March 05, 2014, 05:17:14 PM
All l2 servers r pvp servers....
And getting 100 cast speed for the cost of 600 matk gives u less dps not more....
Let me explain my thought by giving an example
Your casting speed is XX, and your m.atk is YY. Your casting speed allows you to deal 10 shots in a certain time. +10 m.atk, -10% cast speed tattoo - what happens? In that same time, you deal 9 shots which do 10% more damage than normal. Your overall DPS is more or less the same, within the time of 10 shots. It basically just give you a chance of "do you want to deal 10 shots in that time with less damage, or 9 shots with more damage"
--- but your overall DPS is nearly the same.
This is a very simplified example, and I KNOW it doesn't work exactly like that. We however don't have formula (like diablo 3 for those who have played it) that calculates your DPS based on all attack stats, so it is very hard to tell. Conclusion - without extensive testing by players, most (like me) would rather not spend the time and energy to get a tatto and test it, and put the time into gearing up.
The positive effect is simply not evident, unless you get a +attack -pdef/mdef tatto, the effect of which is evident.
Quote from: silent_death on March 05, 2014, 05:50:13 PM
Let me explain my thought by giving an example
Your casting speed is XX, and your m.atk is YY. Your casting speed allows you to deal 10 shots in a certain time. +10 m.atk, -10% cast speed tattoo - what happens? In that same time, you deal 9 shots which do 10% more damage than normal. Your overall DPS is more or less the same, within the time of 10 shots. It basically just give you a chance of "do you want to deal 10 shots in that time with less damage, or 9 shots with more damage"
--- but your overall DPS is nearly the same.
This is a very simplified example, and I KNOW it doesn't work exactly like that. We however don't have formula (like diablo 3 for those who have played it) that calculates your DPS based on all attack stats, so it is very hard to tell. Conclusion - without extensive testing by players, most (like me) would rather not spend the time and energy to get a tatto and test it, and put the time into gearing up.
The positive effect is simply not evident, unless you get a +attack -pdef/mdef tatto, the effect of which is evident.
i will make u tl;dr
matk tattoo is useless
Matk tatto to work atleast 100% efficience (so the same dps) should give atleast 30-40% matk in price of 10% cast
Quote from: Peorexo on March 05, 2014, 05:55:21 PM
i will make u tl;dr
matk tattoo is useless
Matk tatto to work atleast 100% efficience (so the same dps) should give atleast 30-40% matk in price of 10% cast
Sorry mate I didn't understand you
Anyway when it gets to fighter tattoos it's even more complicated. I'm DE archer. Strong p.atk, shit crit rate. Need to get crit rate up. +4% crit, -4% patk. I lose a lot of patk and gain only a little crit rate. There is no benefit.
Tattoos in their present form seem to be only to benefit your class's strong point, and to make your weak point worse because of the design with percentages. Aka - you have a lot of M.atk (SPH), but casting speed is shit. So you just make your strong point stronger and your weakpoint weaker.
I think I've already put my point across, but to underline - there needs to be a very clear benefit of tattoos for players to carry them. At the moment (for me at least) this is not so clear, so I would rather just not bother with anything else except mana. If this is me, I'm sure others feel the same.
Quote from: TheBlackPhoenix on March 05, 2014, 06:33:26 PM
its more likely problem with slots where to wear 2nd tattoo
Quote from: silent_death on March 05, 2014, 06:11:24 PM
Sorry mate I didn't understand you
Anyway when it gets to fighter tattoos it's even more complicated. I'm DE archer. Strong p.atk, shit crit rate. Need to get crit rate up. +4% crit, -4% patk. I lose a lot of patk and gain only a little crit rate. There is no benefit.
Tattoos in their present form seem to be only to benefit your class's strong point, and to make your weak point worse because of the design with percentages. Aka - you have a lot of M.atk (SPH), but casting speed is shit. So you just make your strong point stronger and your weakpoint weaker.
I think I've already put my point across, but to underline - there needs to be a very clear benefit of tattoos for players to carry them. At the moment (for me at least) this is not so clear, so I would rather just not bother with anything else except mana. If this is me, I'm sure others feel the same.
Then the solution would be change the whole % sytem to a static value.
Example tattoos:
+500 matk, -100 castspeed
+100 critical rate, -500 patk
and so on...
Quote from: =drake= on March 06, 2014, 01:23:28 AM
Then the solution would be change the whole % sytem to a static value.
Example tattoos:
+500 matk, -100 castspeed
+100 critical rate, -500 patk
and so on...
That's not a good way.
You shouldn't make the same values for mages and fighters, since the m.atk and p.atk aren't working the same way.
I bought one m.atk tattoo just to try it out, but i never want to see it again :) If you really want people buy m.atk tattoos you should boost it imo coz atm it's just useless.
+10% m.atk will never lead to same DPS difference as +10% p.atk.
Quote from: =drake= on March 06, 2014, 01:23:28 AM
Then the solution would be change the whole % sytem to a stahymntic value.
Example tattoos:
+500 matk, -100 castspeed
+100 critical rate, -500 patk
and so on...
For sure the best option for low rate il substack would be to delate all the tatoos except the mana once.
(i dunno why U still forcing to keep tatoos alive on dn)
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
For sure the best option for low rate il substack would be to delate all the tatoos except the mana once.
(i dunno why U still forcing to keep tatoos alive on dn)
+
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
For sure the best option for low rate il substack would be to delate all the tatoos except the mana once.
(i dunno why U still forcing to keep tatoos alive on dn)
Quote from: Abaddon on March 06, 2014, 10:03:16 AM
DN potion system >>> current mana tattoo system :D
Mana tatoo system is a way more balanced than mana pots.
Quote from: =drake= on March 06, 2014, 01:23:28 AM
Then the solution would be change the whole % sytem to a static value.
Example tattoos:
+500 matk, -100 castspeed
+100 critical rate, -500 patk
and so on...
That will probably be a better option, that way you can decide whether you want to increase your weakest(lowest stat), instead of only having the real option to increase the strongest one (because of the percentage system).
The only practical problem I see with that is adjusting the actual stats. Extensive testing would probably be required to ensure the overall DPS isn't increase too high or too low. This would be especially hard for fighters where crit rate and crit damage are such a big factor.
It would have been too useful if we had something like training dummies in game that record your damage over a minute or something and give you an average /per second.
Quote from: silent_death on March 06, 2014, 11:22:48 AM
That will probably be a better option, that way you can decide whether you want to increase your weakest(lowest stat), instead of only having the real option to increase the strongest one (because of the percentage system).
The only practical problem I see with that is adjusting the actual stats. Extensive testing would probably be required to ensure the overall DPS isn't increase too high or too low. This would be especially hard for fighters where crit rate and crit damage are such a big factor.
It would have been too useful if we had something like training dummies in game that record your damage over a minute or something and give you an average /per second.
Easier and better way is just simply remove all tatoos except mana ones.
It will bring more balance, and better gameplay.
Its stack sub, we already have big advantages assuming to normal l2.
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 12:50:20 PM
Easier and better way is just simply remove all tatoos except mana ones.
It will bring more balance, and better gameplay.
Its stack sub, we already have big advantages assuming to normal l2.
+9000
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 12:50:20 PM
Easier and better way is just simply remove all tatoos except mana ones.
It will bring more balance, and better gameplay.
Its stack sub, we already have big advantages assuming to normal l2.
I'm somewhat indifferent, but I would rather see them balanced and working than not have them at all. I like the idea of having several for different situations (rabbit for run, something for burst dps, something for protection etc). It enables fast/skillful players to gain an edge over ones that like to click and spam F1. If it's too much work for Drake however, might as well remove them completely.
Whilst on the topic, Drake, is it possible to somehow make them highlighted when they are equipped on the skill bar, like for example soulshots? It would help a lot so you don't have to TAB to check what you have equipped all the time, especially in intense situations
Quote from: silent_death on March 06, 2014, 01:25:07 PM
is it possible to somehow make them highlighted when they are equipped on the skill bar, like for example soulshots? It would help a lot so you don't have to TAB to check what you have equipped all the time, especially in intense situations
Nice idea
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 12:50:20 PM
Easier and better way is just simply remove all tatoos except mana ones.
It will bring more balance, and better gameplay.
Its stack sub, we already have big advantages assuming to normal l2.
Drake, could U say something about this plx ?
I have an idea, what do you say about stop whining about how tattoos are to be removed..no one forces them down your throat you can use them if you want, also tatoos are balanced just to give a small edge not to make a char op, if you expected a big boost after getting a tattoo you are sadly mistaken, because in the end what it should matter is the player not the tattoo. If you are good the tattoo is just a tool and it can make a difference.
Quote from: Stazy on March 07, 2014, 12:30:40 PM
if you expected a big boost after getting a tattoo you are sadly mistaken, because in the end what it should matter is the player not the tattoo. If you are good the tattoo is just a tool and it can make a difference.
Where i said anything even close to this?
Im just saying my opinion about tattoos, and as i saw that ppl thinks similar.
No tattoo = better gameplay.
Quote from: Stazy on March 07, 2014, 12:30:40 PM
I have an idea, what do you say about stop whining about how tattoos are to be removed..no one forces them down your throat you can use them if you want, also tatoos are balanced just to give a small edge not to make a char op, if you expected a big boost after getting a tattoo you are sadly mistaken, because in the end what it should matter is the player not the tattoo. If you are good the tattoo is just a tool and it can make a difference.
Wtf you talking about cunt, >Drake< started the thread to get people's opinion, stop trolling and freak off
you could just make the secondary-less important tattoos cheaper or make it infinite-duration.
thing is that it may get just too mind-numbing trying to come up with all those mats and molds.
Also, is it just me being blind or is there no stun resist on any of the tattoos?
Can you also add the cost of making particular level of tattoo (on hovering on 'Tattoo level x' e.g.)? That would be complete information on tattoos - I hate running from NPC to NPC to check the cost of next level.
Quote from: Falatko on March 08, 2014, 08:10:35 PM
remove that refill in GoE since nobody is there and chance to refill tatoo is 0%
People asked the refill system and i gave them.
The reason GoE is empty is because no one seems in fact interested in refilling them else it would be full of people.
Still this doesnt means it have to be removed.
Quote from: Falatko on March 08, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
people will never understand so change that Shining Bow and Refill into donny shop
+14
Quote from: Rufus on March 06, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
For sure the best option for low rate il substack would be to delate all the tatoos except the mana once.
(i dunno why U still forcing to keep tatoos alive on dn)
Drake?
tattoos are one of DNET trademarks and they worked well all these years giving more customization to character stats so they must be kept
however personally i dont like the new tattoo system, the old one appealed more to me
Quote from: Alex on March 20, 2014, 08:21:33 AM
tattoos are one of DNET trademarks and they worked well all these years giving more customization to character stats so they must be kept
however personally i dont like the new tattoo system, the old one appealed more to me
Was right now talking to someone about that...Some good guy in fact.
Dont wanna be polemic and shit on the dish i eat but..
They say "Y0 its core system",then they make this kind of tatto,that has 3 x more effect then baium and QA together,tattoo that,witch coast you 8 euro,or 8 dc per 6 hours.
Why am i talking about that?Cuz yes old system tattoo was much better,but ironic thing here is,the whole nerfs that a DA/BH has for example,they do that and then create a simple tattoo that will make the difference on pvp and create disadvantages between people that are able to donate 1 tattoo per week or not.
Yes if its sub stack server,so it all should sub stack,as its not doing anymore since the update in 2008.
I like this tattoo,but refill mode is just pathetic,NO,noone is going to goe,and if you bring your own caracthers you get 48 hours ban for exploit.
Ironic you know,ironic.
90% Of players came here cuz we expected to play as in old DN server,but its all changed and full of boring things for an old L2 community.
Quote from: Kabally on March 20, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
Was right now talking to someone about that...Some good guy in fact.
Dont wanna be polemic and shit on the dish i eat but..
They say "Y0 its core system",then they make this kind of tatto,that has 3 x more effect then baium and QA together,tattoo that,witch coast you 8 euro,or 8 dc per 6 hours.
Why am i talking about that?Cuz yes old system tattoo was much better,but ironic thing here is,the whole nerfs that a DA/BH has for example,they do that and then create a simple tattoo that will make the difference on pvp and create disadvantages between people that are able to donate 1 tattoo per week or not.
Yes if its sub stack server,so it all should sub stack,as its not doing anymore since the update in 2008.
I like this tattoo,but refill mode is just pathetic,NO,noone is going to goe,and if you bring your own caracthers you get 48 hours ban for exploit.
Ironic you know,ironic.
90% Of players came here cuz we expected to play as in old DN server,but its all changed and full of boring things for an old L2 community.
Agree with cabally, i wanted old DN on interlude with stack sub, and wiped.
agree!! the new system in a few words "it sucks as freak"
Quote from: Kabally on March 20, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
Was right now talking to someone about that...Some good guy in fact.
Dont wanna be polemic and shit on the dish i eat but..
They say "Y0 its core system",then they make this kind of tatto,that has 3 x more effect then baium and QA together,tattoo that,witch coast you 8 euro,or 8 dc per 6 hours.
Why am i talking about that?Cuz yes old system tattoo was much better,but ironic thing here is,the whole nerfs that a DA/BH has for example,they do that and then create a simple tattoo that will make the difference on pvp and create disadvantages between people that are able to donate 1 tattoo per week or not.
Yes if its sub stack server,so it all should sub stack,as its not doing anymore since the update in 2008.
I like this tattoo,but refill mode is just pathetic,NO,noone is going to goe,and if you bring your own caracthers you get 48 hours ban for exploit.
Ironic you know,ironic.
90% Of players came here cuz we expected to play as in old DN server,but its all changed and full of boring things for an old L2 community.
+100000000
Rofl. Most People here only played servers with lol potions. Its fine the way it is. It makes alot of chars more viable. I do agree some tattos are useless and others are just 2 strong... Specially the crit dmg one... Imo there shouldnt be any tattos or pots. You want mana? Get an EE or SE, that's the way it should be.
I also agree that interlude is boring. Hellbound is just another level with alot of new content. Best chronicle ever imo :D
I agree that old system Tatoo was better even if i know why the "new" system Tatoo is here .
Quote from: Clonage on March 20, 2014, 04:08:12 PM
Rofl. Most People here only played servers with lol potions. Its fine the way it is. It makes alot of chars more viable. I do agree some tattos are useless and others are just 2 strong... Specially the crit dmg one... Imo there shouldnt be any tattos or pots. You want mana? Get an EE or SE, that's the way it should be.
I also agree that interlude is boring. Hellbound is just another level with alot of new content. Best chronicle ever imo :D
most people here played only on DNET which is old enough to have its own habits and traditions
while your traveling farmville clan played on various lolservers which are boring and dont offer anything what official server doesnt have
Quote from: Kabally on March 20, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
Was right now talking to someone about that...Some good guy in fact.
Dont wanna be polemic and shit on the dish i eat but..
They say "Y0 its core system",then they make this kind of tatto,that has 3 x more effect then baium and QA together,tattoo that,witch coast you 8 euro,or 8 dc per 6 hours.
Why am i talking about that?Cuz yes old system tattoo was much better,but ironic thing here is,the whole nerfs that a DA/BH has for example,they do that and then create a simple tattoo that will make the difference on pvp and create disadvantages between people that are able to donate 1 tattoo per week or not.
Yes if its sub stack server,so it all should sub stack,as its not doing anymore since the update in 2008.
I like this tattoo,but refill mode is just pathetic,NO,noone is going to goe,and if you bring your own caracthers you get 48 hours ban for exploit.
Ironic you know,ironic.
90% Of players came here cuz we expected to play as in old DN server,but its all changed and full of boring things for an old L2 community.
Agreed. I expected DNET C4 just like the old Dnet server (according to the email I received). I also expected to be paid :P
I guess a lot of shit goes down the drain when the server doesn't lift as expected...
The fact that the tattoos got a (short)preemption date, considering it's cost, makes me feel like it's more likely to polarize the server (rich vs poor) than to regroup people for fun. Anyway we all know how it turns down when it comes to mass vs quality...
Let's wait 2 weeks more and let's listen how they whine about bringing back mutant subs, because "yes, we came back here only for that T_T".
It has been said dozens of times - new tattoo system stays, so adapt or wait for new server.
Quote from: Zibo on March 20, 2014, 05:30:13 PM
Let's wait 2 weeks more and let's listen how they whine about bringing back mutant subs, because "yes, we came back here only for that T_T".
It has been said dozens of times - new tattoo system stays, so adapt or wait for new server.
I think it's still legal to discuss the subject right? Worst case nothing happens ever, best case we improve the current system. If you hate the discussion, you don't have to participate. No hate, just saying.
Ill just say I find the thing kinda balanced now. I do not mind tattoos. I miss pots but.... we manage without them.
Also, to hell with the new chronicles, most I know including me came here cause its not the crap after IL so cut your great "scuggestions".
If someone wants higher chronicle: Dragon
if someone wants old tattoos: Dragon
if someone wants potions: Dragon
The new system is tremendously more balanced than before as higher boost = higher weakness. So is not "rich vs poor" as to get more bonus you get more weak somewhere else.
The old system instead was the real "rich = stronger" as with higher bonus the weakness was reducing.
note:
The CrtDmg tattoo have higher % and seems OP only if you cant understand it.
The +PATK tattoo gives bonus to both normal and critical hits.
The +CrtDmg tattoo gives bonus only to normal hits.
In pure DPS, the +CrtDmg to be stronger than the +PATK requires that the critical rate is more than 50% OR that you got extremely lucky and you striked up more critical hits because of pure luck.
In fact, with 50% critical rate, the DPS of a +20% Patk is totally equal to +40% Crt.Dmg.
Quote from: =drake= on March 20, 2014, 06:31:41 PM
If someone wants higher chronicle: Dragon
if someone wants old tattoos: Dragon
if someone wants potions: Dragon
that sounds like a mockery considering that its been years since dragon has been left in questionable mercy of highly unprofessional GMs
It just makes no sense to make Dragon2 when Dragon still exists.
Quote from: =drake= on March 20, 2014, 06:41:36 PM
It just makes no sense to make Dragon2 when Dragon still exists.
Its not Dragon2,since here there is no donation for +++items,but believe it or not.
Combat haste+mana pot+old tattoo style made a lot of people came here,people that is desapointed now.
When we wanna do something we do,when we dont want,we find excuses.
We all know u not gonna change it,just trying to make u see how unhappy and boring its becoming.
I love DN,everyone here does,but this system...if there is 36 people in ts,36 people says the same,i talk to people in skype they say the same,i come to forum i see the same..i dont get why you gm's keep fighting agaisnt something that is playable by us,and waste of our time..But yes keep doing what you guys want and maybe in 1 year we are receiving emails.
Hey Tarantula is dead,Spider is opening.
Quote from: Kabally on March 20, 2014, 06:47:04 PM
Its not Dragon2,since here there is no donation for +++items,but believe it or not.
Combat haste+mana pot+old tattoo style made a lot of people came here,people that is desapointed now.
When we wanna do something we do,when we dont want,we find excuses.
We all know u not gonna change it,just trying to make u see how unhappy and boring its becoming.
I love DN,everyone here does,but this system...if there is 36 people in ts,36 people says the same,i talk to people in skype they say the same,i come to forum i see the same..i dont get why you gm's keep fighting agaisnt something that is playable by us,and waste of our time..But yes keep doing what you guys want and maybe in 1 year we are receiving emails.
Hey Tarantula is dead,Spider is opening.
Its so hard to equip and unequip tattoos indeed. Tatto system > potion system.
Potion system just killed l2 gameplay and brain usage by far. CHP , Drake what the freak u was thinking....?!?
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on March 20, 2014, 06:49:02 PM
Its so hard to equip and unequip tattoos indeed. Tatto system > potion system.
Potion system just killed l2 gameplay and brain usage by far. CHP , Drake what the freak u was thinking....?!?
while this topic has attention, is it actually possible to make tattoos consume their time only in combat? (10 sec after taking or dealing damage)
so that it wont happen like "oh fuk forgot to unequip tattoo here goes my cash"
Quote from: Alex on March 20, 2014, 06:53:41 PM
while this topic has attention, is it actually possible to make tattoos consume their time only in combat? (10 sec after taking or dealing damage)
so that it wont happen like "oh fuk forgot to unequip tattoo here goes my cash"
I agree with you .
Quote from: =drake= on March 20, 2014, 06:31:41 PM
If someone wants higher chronicle: Dragon
if someone wants old tattoos: Dragon
if someone wants potions: Dragon
The new system is tremendously more balanced than before as higher boost = higher weakness. So is not "rich vs poor" as to get more bonus you get more weak somewhere else.
The old system instead was the real "rich = stronger" as with higher bonus the weakness was reducing.
note:
The CrtDmg tattoo have higher % and seems OP only if you cant understand it.
The +PATK tattoo gives bonus to both normal and critical hits.
The +CrtDmg tattoo gives bonus only to normal hits.
In pure DPS, the +CrtDmg to be stronger than the +PATK requires that the critical rate is more than 50% OR that you got extremely lucky and you striked up more critical hits because of pure luck.
In fact, with 50% critical rate, the DPS of a +20% Patk is totally equal to +40% Crt.Dmg.
Yea maybe but we wasting 10% of 3stats to get 20% of patk bonus or 40% of cd bonus, while still with interlude mana costs (they got reduced in future chronicles) we cant manage to use them more than like a 1min of fight and then have to switch to mana tattoos.
In our old system we could wear offensive tatttoo + mana pot, here we have to choose, which ofc is not bad, but i think all the tattoos that are cutting 3 stats (pdef+mdef+something) should on empower mode on max lvl gives like 10mp/3 or 5mp/3 ^^ but its only my wish :D
Quote from: kesy on March 20, 2014, 07:26:06 PM
I agree with you .
By the way, how about making something that show us when tatoo are without having to open the inventory window ??
Quote from: hotsauce on March 21, 2014, 09:55:14 AM
By the way, how about making something that show us when tatoo are without having to open the inventory window ??
+1. I read similar request about this. I hope it will be implemented.
Quote from: Alex on March 20, 2014, 06:53:41 PM
while this topic has attention, is it actually possible to make tattoos consume their time only in combat? (10 sec after taking or dealing damage)
so that it wont happen like "oh fuk forgot to unequip tattoo here goes my cash"
There is an obvious reason why some tattoos under lv emp cuts 2 stats and others cuts 1 stat.
The one that cuts a single stat usually affect a stat that interact with the same behavior of the bonus given (attack or defence).
Example: + CrtDmg -AtkSpeed
clearly you are trading off your attack speed for critical damage and so you are simply rebalancing your DPS toward fast constant damage or burst damage.
Basically both effect affects your "active" state as they touch your output. Your boost affects any target you hit.
The ones that cuts two stats at a time is because they affect a stat in the opposite direction.
Example: +CrtDmg -Pdef/Mdef
here you are maxing out dps (active) without lose nothing in it (no speed, no patk, etc..) and just losing defence (passive).
if defence was ONLY pdef or ONLY mdef means that your weakness would affect only 1 specific opponent (caster or fighter) while your boost would affect both of them.
So someone could simply use +CrtDmg -Pdef against a mage and have the upper hand. Thats not exactly what the tattoos are designed for.
You must always lose something to gain something else. (like the Dyes)
This is why you lose both pdef and mdef at same time when boosting your attack.
Quote from: Falatko on March 22, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
One thing drake before will be too late,
Dagger dmg is totally broken, I tested with TH / PP vs GL / PP somethings like
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with Tallum Heavy Set 1,4k pdef PP buff no zerk was 550-600
same buffs next :
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with DC Robe Set 900 pdef PP buff no zerk was 700-750
so u mean robe set increase dmg by prolly 15% ? then dagger will never ever burst any1 in Mass PVP even in olympiad daggers are no lethal no win vs these gladiators or tyrants or any Heavy users with proper buffs
not sure if remember right numbers but i can test it again and send pictures later
I suggest to all daggers Reroll as soon as possible.
the problem is with souldshots you can check dmg with and without souldshots and there is no differeance while should be x2 dmg with ss.
Quote from: v23 on March 22, 2014, 08:03:08 AM
the problem is with souldshots you can check dmg with and without souldshots and there is no differeance while should be x2 dmg with ss.
soulshots work different on dagger skills.
Quote from: Alex on March 22, 2014, 08:15:28 AM
soulshots work different on dagger skills.
on every server, so how should it work ?
Quote from: Falatko on March 22, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
One thing drake before will be too late,
Dagger dmg is totally broken, I tested with TH / PP vs GL / PP somethings like
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with Tallum Heavy Set 1,4k pdef PP buff no zerk was 550-600
same buffs next :
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with DC Robe Set 900 pdef PP buff no zerk was 700-750
so u mean robe set increase dmg by prolly 15% ? then dagger will never ever burst any1 in Mass PVP even in olympiad daggers are no lethal no win vs these gladiators or tyrants or any Heavy users with proper buffs
not sure if remember right numbers but i can test it again and send pictures later
I suggest to all daggers Reroll as soon as possible.
You already rerolled from oly playing th to screaming like a baby th about easy fights Adela, sad sad
Quote from: SizeMatters on March 22, 2014, 12:48:49 PM
You already rerolled from oly playing th to screaming like a baby th about easy fights Adela, sad sad
i think Falat beats that crappy es/something sizematters pretty easily so Adela just states the fact
Quote from: Falatko on March 22, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
One thing drake before will be too late,
Dagger dmg is totally broken, I tested with TH / PP vs GL / PP somethings like
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with Tallum Heavy Set 1,4k pdef PP buff no zerk was 550-600
same buffs next :
with shadow kris and PP Buffs on th , Deadly Blow to GL / PP with DC Robe Set 900 pdef PP buff no zerk was 700-750
so u mean robe set increase dmg by prolly 15% ? then dagger will never ever burst any1 in Mass PVP even in olympiad daggers are no lethal no win vs these gladiators or tyrants or any Heavy users with proper buffs
not sure if remember right numbers but i can test it again and send pictures later
I suggest to all daggers Reroll as soon as possible.
Although I support what you say as there are no daggers on this server, why not create it as a separate topic so we can discuss it there rather than go off-topic about the tattoos?
And what separate topic would change? Some of us who play dagger stated that they are nerfed/working wrong as always and staff as always said 'daggers are like official'.
Quote from: Blizzer on March 22, 2014, 03:40:26 PM
And what separate topic would change? Some of us who play dagger stated that they are nerfed/working wrong as always and staff as always said 'daggers are like official'.
Daggers on 40% cd tattoo hit LESS than on official even counting 25% reduction, and we cant use this tattoo cuz of mana issues. Gonna be next useless class soon
Quote from: Peorexo on March 22, 2014, 05:50:11 PM
Daggers on 40% cd tattoo hit LESS than on official even counting 25% reduction, and we cant use this tattoo cuz of mana issues. Gonna be next useless class soon
when ss doesn't work isn't suprise at all