As in subject. How would you boost archers in HB to make them atractive to play with?
*Forum trolls, people who dont even play nor have intention to play, please refrein from posting.
Thanks
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on July 09, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
As in subject. How would you boost archers in HB to make them atractive to play with?
*Forum trolls, people who dont even play nor have intention to play, please refrein from posting.
Thanks
Srsly speaking, i'd not buff them directly as imo they were fine, the only issue there was too powerfull shield on tanks. Instead of thinking how to rawly buff them, i'd consider making them scale better with correct party setup, maybe add GF real target enchant routes to get -pdef from there.
Honestly even the low time i played on my archer i couldnt disagree more about ppl crying about them, having 4k+patk and 2k+atk speed on kamael while hitting dynasty geared bp/tank for 1k-1.2k crits like 5 shots per second wasnt bad.
I believe i suggested somewhere earlier to reduce the shield power by 30% and rate by 15% globally on tanks (pvp only if there is a possibility to make it).
The big not class related problem with archer was the F*CKING mana potions, if u make ppl self recharge AND add mana potions on top of that, dont cry later on forum that archers are worse on pvp since mages (kings of dps) forgot to bring mana issues with them to combat field LOL
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on July 09, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
As in subject. How would you boost archers in HB to make them atractive to play with?
*Forum trolls, people who dont even play nor have intention to play, please refrein from posting.
Thanks
Well probably by not banning people for no reason after they finally made archer pt to show others that there is nothing wrong with archers ;)
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on July 09, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
As in subject. How would you boost archers in HB to make them atractive to play with?
*Forum trolls, people who dont even play nor have intention to play, please refrein from posting.
Thanks
Well Track on dragon and NM during HB archers were ok dealing big dmg and mages were dealing even more.The mages were strong like on hellraiser but with some extra dmg from custom sets.
We had 1 op archers pt always fighting with SG op mages pt and bouth sides won / lost many times cause the rest sides were paper archers / mages.
But I can't remember good what changes there were made.On attribute , pvp dmg reduction...been long time but for sure the nerfs were removed from stacking classes sub like he/gl , he/wl , he/th.
Kesy was playing with bow on his th/wk sh1t range against mages / archers but he was dealing nice dmg.Even Alex was playing with bow on his th/wl.
Maybe you know / remember cause on NM was the same.Think nm and dragon merged in GF if I remember good.
I know there was custom sets they added to some extra.But even with normal dyna sets you would deal good dmg since not all had at begin custom sets there was a difference but not so extra big.
I will go with the red part no other boost / nerfs fixes should be done leave mages strong as they are.
Let archer subs to use their stacking skills at their full potential except mastery skills ( working at full on every weapon cause that's why sub is made for...why to restrict it to % dmg for bow and full for other weapons ).Ex : like duelist spirit / focus attack / f.power how they work 100% on duals , spear , dagger should work 100% on bow to like it was on dragon.
But mastery nerfs should remain like he/pp he/wk etc. kinda not fair but they will remain paper :D or you chose w/e.
I know that mastery nerf was fixed in IL but no idea if it was removed in HB...but for sure in GF and now H5 they are removed.
P.S For sure I will play more dagger than archer cause I like switching dagger / bow more complex fight.
Here my opinion
Archers in general can do very well. Vs mages, even mages/tanks (with the deflect arrow and UD/Vengasnese nerf) they do a lot of damage.
The real problem is archer vs tank with heavy... and this is the whole l2 concept this is how it should be. But in my opinion if you would like to balance it a bit and make more attractive archers as a class you could reduce P. def on heavy or the deflect arrow on heavy.
Thanks for considering doing something to improve the situation :D even that I never play as an archer
New HB server incoming?
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on July 09, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
As in subject. How would you boost archers in HB to make them atractive to play with?
*Forum trolls, people who dont even play nor have intention to play, please refrein from posting.
Thanks
Yea try balance the server now after 1.5k people left cause they were asking you to balance server and you were deleting their posts.
Quote from: geo1213 on July 11, 2016, 03:24:56 AM
Yea try balance the server now after 1.5k people left cause they were asking you to balance server and you were deleting their posts.
Firstly, you dont know yet why are we asking for balance.
Secondly, beside saying "BALANNCEE TEH GAME" write down your idea, else stay silence forever. And please dont tell me you posted it before, because you didnt.
Quote from: reddragonjr on July 10, 2016, 01:03:55 AM
I didnt want to comment to make any more spam, but reading this kind of post make me realise just how many debils they are out there.
For your info duelist spirit was not nerfed with bow/dagger at all, focus attack was nerfed by half for sole reason to make it weaker than glad sub, without the nerf nobody would play he,th / glad because focus attack would be better with no need to enchant + more wl skills to make it even stronger.
The biggest point in making server balance is to not nerf to the oblivion dmg dealing classes, but to adjust the weaker ones so pvps are fun not like on dragon x15.
I'll say it again, archers HAD dmg it was there for them, but ppl need to take their head out of their asses and start playing like its Hellbound not freaking Interlude no-brainer.
The biggest issue for archers is mana potions and self recharge for mages, eot.
Considering the earlier fix for SOF to not allow stacking, now to get srs info about how fights are going we 'd need beta to check this out.
Quote from: Peorexo on July 09, 2016, 05:13:56 PM
Srsly speaking, i'd not buff them directly as imo they were fine, the only issue there was too powerfull shield on tanks. Instead of thinking how to rawly buff them, i'd consider making them scale better with correct party setup, maybe add GF real target enchant routes to get -pdef from there.
Honestly even the low time i played on my archer i couldnt disagree more about ppl crying about them, having 4k+patk and 2k+atk speed on kamael while hitting dynasty geared bp/tank for 1k-1.2k crits like 5 shots per second wasnt bad.
I believe i suggested somewhere earlier to reduce the shield power by 30% and rate by 15% globally on tanks (pvp only if there is a possibility to make it).
The big not class related problem with archer was the F*CKING mana potions, if u make ppl self recharge AND add mana potions on top of that, dont cry later on forum that archers are worse on pvp since mages (kings of dps) forgot to bring mana issues with them to combat field LOL
Totally agreeing with everything in this post! I would like the self recharge gone and prefer if the mana pots weren't around aswell tbh. The problem with archers will most likely be solved if you take a look into changing deflect arrow or even remove the bow resistance from it and keep crossbow resist (which imo would make more sense than nerfing shield def/power since it affects alot more than just archer damage).
Quote from: Easley on July 11, 2016, 02:05:19 PM
Totally agreeing with everything in this post! I would like the self recharge gone and prefer if the mana pots weren't around aswell tbh. The problem with archers will most likely be solved if you take a look into changing deflect arrow or even remove the bow resistance from it and keep crossbow resist (which imo would make more sense than nerfing shield def/power since it affects alot more than just archer damage).
if recharge is causing problems then it should just be disabled for non healer classes while in pvp combat.
Quote from: pmkaboo on July 11, 2016, 08:51:29 PM
if recharge is causing problems then it should just be disabled for non healer classes while in pvp combat.
just make it work like official , NO for self-recharge and delete this mana potion shit
Archers have good base dmg(not so good DPS) but they get outclassed by mages because of how they benifit much more from substack. The main problem is not archers being bad but they're not benifiting as much as other classes in substack.
Tank sub directly counters archers with passives, you don't even have to press buttons to counter archers. Shield Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=153) is an example and it isnt touched.
IMO any character that is going to sub as Tank and is not an heavy armor user should inherit all tank skills balanced to the type of armor/weapon the character uses. This was already done for skills like Majesty, UD, Vengeance, etc. But this should be done for every other skill. It should feel more like: "i pressed something to actually win" then just passively blocking everything.
I would start by testing these out and see how the game feels like.
Some skills that should be tested:
Shield Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=153) -> Balance it to light/robe, or just make it not work at all in robe users.
Guard Stance (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=288) -> Same as above.
Shield Fortress (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=322) -> Only balance it to light/robe.
Anti Magic Armor (http://l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=760) -> Only balance it to light/robe.
And so on...
Well there's still other problems right? Archer heavy users VS Archer heavy users And Archers vs Dagger/Tanks. Well there's a 'simple' solution.
Make them play 'retail like'.
How? Use their Weapon Mastery Passive with a DPS decrease if they don't use their class armor type.
Examples:
Bow Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=208): 10%~15% atk speed decrease on other types of armor besides light.
Dagger Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=209): Same as above.
The important part is that this will NOT nerf tank users that want to play a retail style character such as Pal/pp. They won't be affected by the ballance because dont have the mastery.
People might think: "That's a huge nerf to Dagger/tanks". They can still use the shield for Shield Stun and benifit from all the Shield skills/passives that the tank class offers.
I would suggest to implement the old DN off hand daggers. I believe it would probably be a buff to dagger/tank users on light sets. But it would be overall more balanced then dagger/tank on heavy armor.
Example of an off hand dagger stats would be like 1/2 of the p atk as shield defense and the keep the defense rate at 20, it will always be increased with the tank passives. And is basicly an indirect buff to daggers/buffers.
If the game keeps feeling too mage oriented i still have some ideas.
Quote from: Clonage on July 19, 2016, 06:56:01 PM
Archers have good base dmg(not so good DPS) but they get outclassed by mages because of how they benifit much more from substack. The main problem is not archers being bad but they're not benifiting as much as other classes in substack.
Tank sub directly counters archers with passives, you don't even have to press buttons to counter archers. Shield Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=153) is an example and it isnt touched.
IMO any character that is going to sub as Tank and is not a heavy armor user should inherit all tank skills balanced to the type of armor/weapon the character uses. This was already done for skill like Majesty, party UD, etc. But this should be done for every other skill. It should feel more like a "i pressed something to actually win"
I would start by testing these out and see how the game feels like.
Some skills that should be tested:
Shield Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=153) -> Balance it to light/robe, or just make it not work at all in robe users.
Guard Stance (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=288) -> Same as above.
Shield Fortress (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=322) -> Only balance it to light/robe.
Well there's still other problems right? Archer heavy users VS Archer heavy users And Archers vs Dagger/Tanks. Well there's a 'simple' solution.
Make them play 'retail like'.
How? Use their Weapon Mastery Passive with a DPS decrease if they don't use their class armor type.
Examples:
Bow Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=208): 10%~15% atk speed decrease on other types of armor besides light.
Dagger Mastery (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=209): Same as above.
The most important is that this will NOT nerf tank users that want to play a retail style character such as Pal/pp. They won't be affected by the ballance because dont have the mastery.
People might think: "That's a huge nerf to Dagger/tanks". They can still use the shield for Shield Stun and benifit from all the Shield skills/passives that the tank offers.
I would suggest to implement the old DN off hand daggers. I believe it would probably be a buff to dagger/tank users on light sets. But it would be overall more balanced then dagger/tank on heavy armor.
Example of an off hand dagger stats would be like 1/2 of the p atk as shield defense and the keep the defense rate at 20, it will always be increased with the tank passives. And is basicly an indirect buff to daggers/buffers.
If the game keeps feeling too mage oriented i still have some ideas.
tl;dr cut shield in robe, dagger/bow dmg in heavy, remove mana pots (important point! to keep mages in check)
Quote from: Peorexo on July 19, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
tl;dr cut shield in robe, dagger/bow dmg in heavy, remove mana pots (important point! to keep mages in check)
Yeah pretty much that's the TL;DR.
Removing mana pots is important. It puts a timer on mage partys damage.
Other changes i think would improve the gameplay:
- Change how Flames of invicibility (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1427), Sublime Self-Sacrifice (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1505) and Celestial Shield (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1418) work. Atleast make buffs debuffs go through. It pisses me off when 2 partys do Flames or Sacrifice and nothing happens for 15/30 seconds... Either rework it or give it a static cast time of 2~3 seconds. I dont care what you do, just give it some kind of counterplay. These skills are too linear. That's why they are changed in other chronicles.
- Whenever Shield of Faith (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=528) is in effect the player also receive a debuff in which they cannot benifit from another Shield of Faith for X minutes.
There's a simillar concept in Wow called Exhaustion (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=57723/exhaustion). And it's applied when someone receives Heroism (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=32182/heroism).
P.S.:
- No mutants. Rip Buff bots.
- No triple boxes. This is a MMO...
Quote from: Clonage on July 19, 2016, 09:35:56 PM
Yeah pretty much that's the TL;DR.
Removing mana pots is important. It puts a timer on mage partys damage.
Other changes i think would improve the gameplay:
- Change how Flames of invicibility (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1427), Sublime Self-Sacrifice (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1505) and Celestial Shield (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=1418) work. Atleast make buffs debuffs go through. It pisses me off when 2 partys do Flames or Sacrifice and nothing happens for 15/30 seconds... Either rework it or give it a static cast time of 2~3 seconds. I dont care what you do, just give it some kind of counterplay. These skills are too linear. That's why they are changed in other chronicles.
- Whenever Shield of Faith (http://base.l2j.ru/index.php?p=19&skid=528) is in effect the player also receive a debuff in which they cannot benifit from another Shield of Faith for X minutes.
There's a simillar concept in Wow called Exhaustion (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=57723/exhaustion). And it's applied when someone receives Heroism (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=32182/heroism).
P.S.:
- No mutants. Rip Buff bots.
- No triple boxes. This is a MMO...
Foi/Celestials etc, cancel is the counterplay + noise, its pretty much how this chronicle works, i'd leave it as it is personally.
SOF is nerfed already from what i remember on HR atm when SOF is used u cant get another bonus for like 30-45-60sec? (dunno value) pretty much like celestial in GOD.
Quote from: Peorexo on July 19, 2016, 10:19:19 PM
Foi/Celestials etc, cancel is the counterplay + noise, its pretty much how this chronicle works, i'd leave it as it is personally.
SOF is nerfed already from what i remember on HR atm when SOF is used u cant get another bonus for like 30-45-60sec? (dunno value) pretty much like celestial in GOD.
Hmm i remember on foi/celes not being able to cancel or do anything. I can be wrong tho.
That's how it works in H5. You can get debuffed/canceled on foi/cele and break the effect on casting a spell.
Quote from: Clonage on July 19, 2016, 09:35:56 PM
Removing mana pots is important. It puts a timer on mage partys damage.
Nah, imo disable using mana pots while you are engaged in pvp (like i have seen on some other server)
No mana pots in pvp, however you can use them while exping
Quote from: Morel on July 24, 2016, 04:21:26 PM
Nah, imo disable using mana pots while you are engaged in pvp (like i have seen on some other server)
No mana pots in pvp, however you can use them while exping
Yea that one is good i thought about it as well, mana pots only available off-combat or just while sitting would be rly gut.
@down:
ye, me neither, but knowing DN, there is higher chance getting "nerf" for pots than getting it removed
Quote from: Peorexo on July 24, 2016, 08:02:23 PM
Yea that one is good i thought about it as well, mana pots only available off-combat or just while sitting would be rly gut.
I'd reather not see mana pots but that idea isn't bad at all.
I would suggest great feature that is perfectly working on all top L2 servers on hopzone or topzone, vote to get buffs (limited list) or extra buffs (if server is x10 or more, Prophecy/Cats or Pony buffs, Covs etc) ppl are voting like mad just to get buffs at the start (1h or 2h period). Simple and best feature to get server on top of the vote list.
Quote from: Garro on July 24, 2016, 10:16:43 PM
I would suggest great feature that is perfectly working on all top L2 servers on hopzone or topzone, vote to get buffs (limited list) or extra buffs (if server is x10 or more, Prophecy/Cats or Pony buffs, Covs etc) ppl are voting like mad just to get buffs at the start (1h or 2h period). Simple and best feature to get server on top of the vote list.
That idea is actually nice.
Also there's a thing that i'd like to talk about.
Custom Tattos and Potions:
I know that character customization isn't a big thing in L2, but all this custom stuff who does it really benifit? In my honest opinion this type of customization only brings instability to the gameplay and they only ramp up the mage classes. They turn the game more "complex" in a weird way. I haven't seen in years a server with this type of potions/tattos. I am not refering to mana potions, i mean Combat haste, p def, m atk, etc. They are to incosistent, they inscrease stats depending on the base number of the same stat and that number is based on Race and also the if the character is Mage or Fighter.
Aren't the "normal" buffs enough?
about mana pots, out of pvp mana pots idea is great, there are A LOT of solo/duo players who would like to at least farm with mana pots
Quote from: Garro on July 24, 2016, 10:16:43 PM
I would suggest great feature that is perfectly working on all top L2 servers on hopzone or topzone, vote to get buffs (limited list) or extra buffs (if server is x10 or more, Prophecy/Cats or Pony buffs, Covs etc) ppl are voting like mad just to get buffs at the start (1h or 2h period). Simple and best feature to get server on top of the vote list.
I like that idea too, but I just think that you should do like a cap of 5x per vote (12 hours ??). I mean, you would vote, and you could get those buffs 5x only before you can vote again. That would also stop the leaving town with full buffs just to get some free frags like : going to town to get full buffed -> port to farm locations -> repeat the process.
I don't know, I feel like having permanent buffs if you consistently vote is kinda OP and takes the value out of the buffers too. I think that voting rewards is a good idea, but maybe as like a boost for spoiling or drop rate. Something like a rune effect but not as impactful, like 15% increase maybe. I don't know what I'm talking about, just throwing some ideas out there that make sense to me, but I can be completly out of it :(
EDIT: Just thought of something else too. If you decide to put Merchant of Mammon & Blacksmith of Mammon in towns, maybe you could edit it so that only people who voted can use them ? This type of things that ease the gameplay just enough that it is worth the effort of voting
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,292313.0.html