Your dagger experience (maybe a GM/coder can explain?)

[WindPhoenix]

backstab is usually crit and takes hp, if you are lucky mages are min 3 blows each

and about dances/songs   it depends- if you are daggeer/tank better to have dances coz atk. speed is your only weapon (don't mention blows of coz >.>). If not, better take songs, coz dagger/tank on self has 2.1k def and 1.2-3k m def  

plus a PW has 2 bluffs (bluff and blinding, that makes you turn your back as well) so getting behind someone for a backstab ain't that hard.

OMG, i know some dagger stuff :O

[Herza]

plus a PW has 2 bluffs (bluff and blinding, that makes you turn your back as well) so getting behind someone for a backstab ain't that hard.

OMG, i know some dagger stuff :O

no, "google ur friend" 

[PoFon]

Btw guys, any1 tested daggers+Black Blow? I heard you hit more backstab critical with that kind of SA, i bought and tested it, and i feel i hit more, but maybe just bcs i want to feel that .

[kidicarus]

Aw/sk
AW too have lure now :p

I see.... haven't played dagger since c3

[flameOne]

Why people never try before speaking?
It was working on IL and it still work
(http://img209.imageshack.us/i/shot00013u.jpg/)
First blow with AS + CD +3 second on with AS +0 (don't tell me that the extra damages are from the +3 :p)

that extra dmg is becouse you dont have SA in your AS. giving SA to S grade weapon enhance dmg in pvp, thats the key. And about DS+MM, as far as i know when MM SA was dissabled there werent skills like backstab and lehtal strike, so as i read on retail forums that aditional 40 % bonus in landing rate, works only with deadly and mortal blow. anyway this is DNet not retail, so who knows...  sry for my english

[fontalia]

Btw guys, any1 tested daggers+Black Blow? I heard you hit more backstab critical with that kind of SA, i bought and tested it, and i feel i hit more, but maybe just bcs i want to feel that .

This SA name is a "bit" disturbing cause back blow increase critical attack rate and has nothing to do with critical skills.
This is the skill effect use in this SA p_critical_rate_position_bonus you can find it in focus chance, POWind, assasin servitor and some SA.

[fontalia]

that extra dmg is becouse you dont have SA in your AS. giving SA to S grade weapon enhance dmg in pvp, thats the key. And about DS+MM, as far as i know when MM SA was dissabled there werent skills like backstab and lehtal strike, so as i read on retail forums that aditional 40 % bonus in landing rate, works only with deadly and mortal blow. anyway this is DNet not retail, so who knows...  sry for my english

OMG you are right ^^ i completly forgot about pvp bonus on SA :p
MM SA affect fatal blow skill it's all blows execpt backstab (on C4 pts don't how it is on DNeT now).

[WindPhoenix]

no, "google ur friend" 

nope, actually i learned it from F18Hornet, remember i have a level 76 PW?

[fontalia]

so u failed again  u must go test bef0re speak and btw  try haste and cd daggers and u will realise dmg is same

Again? :p
I don't think i failed i will think it as soon as i see a proof


This time there is 2 crystal dagger one MM +4 the other one CD +3
no soulshot used not vicious stance only death wisper haste
First part with MM second with CD
SA CD on crystal dagger is only 140
But thx for telling that i failled cause with this new test i found something very usefull

[WscieklyWaz]

HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)

In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...

Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA

The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS

The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.

PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)

[zthrx]

HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)

In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...

Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA

The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS

The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.

PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)

I don't think that +4 str more give u much more blows 

[SLAYMORE]

 I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.

As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... /  P.def., the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now

xD