startin some little test here and there about dyes/weapon etc
Blows land rate: affected by?
Damage on blows: affected by?
about damage :
till now i can say for sure that the P atk doesn't make a shit (might, great might pof or crit damage related like death wisp etcetc)
AS+10 vs DD+MM+3: damage 1200-1300 vs 1200-1300
And as reflex also the +STR or - STR has no relfex (tested on blows with +4 STR or - 5 STR: always same damage)
(ps: also using or not Soulshot doesn't affect it ..... +100 dmg on B or on S weapon, nothin more)
What influence blow LAND rate?
For now i can say FOR SURE the lvl difference
to have some fun i tested around 100-120 mob lvl 40-50
it was like a oneshot party
i can say at least a 85% blows landed (and high % of lethal )
PS: demon mm had better landing rate than AS.... what a news :D
abouth Lethal landing rate: well this is simple the theory that they Should be based on str (but honestly i prefer to make 10 succesflul blow than one succesful lethal.... lethal is funny fjust from tim eto time)
but wold be nice , due the fact we are Dnet and so custom, to know WHAT affect WHAT
maybe Drake putted blows landrate MEN based. ok. or on char name. well, ok again.
just to have clear ideas.
magic crit is WIT. ok.
Matk / curses is INT vs MEN. ok
Crit damage skill on fighter just p atk based? ooook
and us? :D
tnx
Ps: notice i didn't asked anything about lethals. if anyone has the lethal formula, nice for him and keep it for yourself :D
Well Dex should effect landrate if im not misstaken. Mb it effects lethals aswell..... but i think the only way of knowing for sure on DN is finding a peacefull place and just test a few thousand blows on your own.
Quote from: kidicarus on June 18, 2009, 02:03:42 PM
Well Dex should effect landrate if im not misstaken. Mb it effects lethals aswell..... but i think the only way of knowing for sure on DN is finding a peacefull place and just test a few thousand blows on your own.
problem is that u can test something u know exist :)
FE: if i say MEN influences curse land....u can test it (and how much +/- MEN influences it)
if u don't know WHAT is the key, u can't even start :)
Quote from: duleO81 on June 18, 2009, 05:02:32 PM
dagers are OP chars in HB,nothing more to say,yust watch how much that lethal hax shit skill lands.
pls don't spam this post and also...read it before
i m not interested at all in lethal.
Get yourself -5 dex dyes and try lots of blows and than try it again with +5 dex dyes and you will see if it depends on dex ;)
And the dammage difference between b grade and s grade is probably becouse S grade weapons have +pvp dammage...
STR neither has an effect on Critical Stab Rate. I tested it so that the difference in STR and CON were the only variables. Dex/Equip/Buffs/Position was exactly the same. I tested -9 STR vs +5 STR. During my test i also noticed Deadly Blow is not able to do a Critical Stab anymore.
Quote from: TomekAlmighty on June 18, 2009, 05:11:54 PM
Get yourself -5 dex dyes and try lots of blows and than try it again with +5 dex dyes and you will see if it depends on dex ;)
And the dammage difference between b grade and s grade is probably becouse S grade weapons have +pvp dammage...
tested
no difference between blows from B or S + SA
1200/1300 vs 1200/1300
Quote from: Dag on June 18, 2009, 05:21:28 PM
tested
no difference between blows from B or S + SA
1200/1300 vs 1200/1300
Crit dammage SA doesnt have any effect on blows? O.o
I guess than might mortal is ftw! xD
Quote from: TomekAlmighty on June 18, 2009, 05:33:10 PM
Crit dammage SA doesnt have any effect on blows? O.o
I guess than might mortal is ftw! xD
crit damage work on crit , so must be a crit damage (succesful blow isn a succesful crit, the crit will be from backstab when multiplies the damage)
btw
on AS i have haste :)
Quote from: Dag on June 18, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
startin some little test here and there about dyes/weapon etc
Blows land rate: affected by?
Damage on blows: affected by?
about damage :
till now i can say for sure that the P atk doesn't make a shit (might, great might pof or crit damage related like death wisp etcetc)
AS+10 vs DD+MM+3: damage 1200-1300 vs 1200-1300
And as reflex also the +STR or - STR has no relfex (tested on blows with +4 STR or - 5 STR: always same damage)
(ps: also using or not Soulshot doesn't affect it ..... +100 dmg on B or on S weapon, nothin more)
What influence blow LAND rate?
For now i can say FOR SURE the lvl difference
to have some fun i tested around 100-120 mob lvl 40-50
it was like a oneshot party
i can say at least a 85% blows landed (and high % of lethal )
PS: demon mm had better landing rate than AS.... what a news :D
abouth Lethal landing rate: well this is simple the theory that they Should be based on str (but honestly i prefer to make 10 succesflul blow than one succesful lethal.... lethal is funny fjust from tim eto time)
but wold be nice , due the fact we are Dnet and so custom, to know WHAT affect WHAT
maybe Drake putted blows landrate MEN based. ok. or on char name. well, ok again.
just to have clear ideas.
magic crit is WIT. ok.
Matk / curses is INT vs MEN. ok
Crit damage skill on fighter just p atk based? ooook
and us? :D
tnx
Ps: notice i didn't asked anything about lethals. if anyone has the lethal formula, nice for him and keep it for yourself :D
we defenitly need the formula ... cuz its a necessity to fix it its not as pointless as return there, its a 1 hit kill wtvr the hp u got. My idea is to set the lethal to half damage at each letal (so u cant , theoricly, hit 0) and that way its still a good skill but not as OP as this. Remove all CP and half hp is well enougth
but for the rest I guess its dex.
why every one thing that CD in daggers give u more dmg..... its not c4 when every blow was a Critical HIT( in c4 ur blows was 200 dmg better) in HB we have blows and critical blows so SA CD works only when u have Critical BLow .......
so atm MM ftw :P
I was test dyes and i was see diferent str+5 and -5 but maby i was wrong, i also see diferent with others wepons
dmg from blows have more power with buff for crit power ( DW, fire, cat buff, cov crit dmg sa, focus power and fun start^^ )
btw avery 1 blow is critical hit ( use blow on mob/npc w/o death whisper>se dmg, use death whisper>see smg xD ) if u se
U use lethal blow
CRITICAL HIT!!
123124123 dmg
it is same as critical on glad or tyr becouse dmg are only 2 times better (on full buff it should be w/o crit 100 dmg with crit 1000 dmg xD )
ps: if str have no power on daggers make dye dex+5 str-5 and con+4 str-4, test ur POWER and show us results
Quote from: thehunted on June 18, 2009, 05:20:14 PM
During my test i also noticed Deadly Blow is not able to do a Critical Stab anymore.
Deadly blow have never been able to skill critical :/
Result:
Deadly_Count: 600
Land_Count: 347
Leth_Count: 46
Crit_count: 0
tell whatever u want, but I've checked AS+CD and AS w/o SA and blows with AS+CD are bigger for about 150-200
Quote from: Blizzer on June 18, 2009, 10:20:39 PM
tell whatever u want, but I've checked AS+CD and AS w/o SA and blows with AS+CD are bigger for about 150-200
it is true, i have as+cd
Quote from: Dag on June 18, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
startin some little test here and there about dyes/weapon etc
Blows land rate: affected by?
Damage on blows: affected by?
about damage :
till now i can say for sure that the P atk doesn't make a shit (might, great might pof or crit damage related like death wisp etcetc)
AS+10 vs DD+MM+3: damage 1200-1300 vs 1200-1300
And as reflex also the +STR or - STR has no relfex (tested on blows with +4 STR or - 5 STR: always same damage)
(ps: also using or not Soulshot doesn't affect it ..... +100 dmg on B or on S weapon, nothin more)
What influence blow LAND rate?
For now i can say FOR SURE the lvl difference
to have some fun i tested around 100-120 mob lvl 40-50
it was like a oneshot party
i can say at least a 85% blows landed (and high % of lethal )
PS: demon mm had better landing rate than AS.... what a news :D
abouth Lethal landing rate: well this is simple the theory that they Should be based on str (but honestly i prefer to make 10 succesflul blow than one succesful lethal.... lethal is funny fjust from tim eto time)
but wold be nice , due the fact we are Dnet and so custom, to know WHAT affect WHAT
maybe Drake putted blows landrate MEN based. ok. or on char name. well, ok again.
just to have clear ideas.
magic crit is WIT. ok.
Matk / curses is INT vs MEN. ok
Crit damage skill on fighter just p atk based? ooook
and us? :D
tnx
Ps: notice i didn't asked anything about lethals. if anyone has the lethal formula, nice for him and keep it for yourself :D
I use as+haste(clarity) with dyes -9 str +5 dex +4 con
Quote from: Onionis on June 18, 2009, 06:06:21 PM
why every one thing that CD in daggers give u more dmg..... its not c4 when every blow was a Critical HIT( in c4 ur blows was 200 dmg better) in HB we have blows and critical blows so SA CD works only when u have Critical BLow .......
so atm MM ftw :P
breakin benjamin - blow me away
.. right ? ;d
Some AW stats
Dies + 4 Dex (i think) dynasty heady set + assasin passive skill and i didn't used Mortal strike.
All blows are launch from the back of the target
Result:
Dead_Count: 400
Land_Count: 303 = 75.75%
Crit_Count: 0
Leth_Count: 32 = 8%
Full_Lethal_Count: 1 = 0.25%
Result:
Back_Count: 400
Land_Count: 378 = 94.5%
Crit_Count: 46 = 11.5%
Lethal_Count: 32 = 8%
Full_Lethal_Count: 1 = 0.25%
On most of the C4Off based servers rate for lethal (don't know if they are retail like...) :
Deadly blow 6% for lethal and 1% for full lethal
BackStab 4% for lethal and 1% for full lethal
I didn't looked at L2J stats
Old Dragon interlude results:
Result:
Deadly_Count: 600
Land_Count: 358 = 59.666%
Crit_count: 0
Leth_Count: 51 = 8.5% lethal + full lethal
Result:
Back_Count: 600
Land_Count: 530 = 88.333%
Crit_count: 132 = 22%
Leth_Count: 18 = 3% lethal + full lethal
Finisters test on DNeT Interlude
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,132783.0.html
Quote from: Chicks on June 18, 2009, 05:44:30 PM
we defenitly need the formula ... cuz its a necessity to fix it its not as pointless as return there, its a 1 hit kill wtvr the hp u got. My idea is to set the lethal to half damage at each letal (so u cant , theoricly, hit 0) and that way its still a good skill but not as OP as this. Remove all CP and half hp is well enougth
but for the rest I guess its dex.
What I've admitted in my test, lethal has higher chance at killing mobs, and other in PvP
killing thousands chimeras fullbuffed, I made many lethals but just a few were 100% hp and CP, you can even make 3 (I think possible to make even 4) lethals on chimera and it takes random points of HP (not CP like in PvP), sometimes lethal took 1/5 of hp only and that wasn't even half (cp) lethal.
lethal from deadly blow or backstab on mobs is way way way less in PvP, dun remember to lethal some1 from those skills at PvP last time, but mobs yee....
And at PvP you can make or CP or full lethal, so you should test it more since you make a decision how lethal is "OP"
and from my "test" at sieges, lethals lands like 20 time less than magical crits (some1 said I can't compare those two, but lets face it, you are dead after 2 m. crits :D, which is way higher than lethal...) and you have to be rly unlucky to get 100% lethal during the siege....
and to make things clear, I've killed hundreds mobs in blazing to test SA CD on dyna and AS (on icarus CD bonus is same as dyna dagger):
DS-mm- the lowest dmg from: AS+CD which makes difference, dyna +cd makes only 200->400< max dmg more (during critical and about 100-near 200 more at normal blow) (so it's not the bonus 559) I think CD dyna bonus still doesn't work as it should...
the difference at the normal hits makes ur weapon's P.atk... and if u have +str dyes only your normal hits gonna be higher, it doesn't count to blows or criticals... it's clear
Quote from: Blizzer on June 18, 2009, 10:20:39 PM
tell whatever u want, but I've checked AS+CD and AS w/o SA and blows with AS+CD are bigger for about 150-200
On a 2k blow, who cares. +7% attack speed is much better.
well' now i have some numbers to compare
as soon as possible (it will take some time to land so many skills) i'll test also difference between those setting
no buff (only haste )
th lvl 81 vs ty/wc lvl 81 (i'll put dyes on ty to take him dex-->30 like human basic stat)
dyes : no dyes, dyes +4str -4dex dynasty heavy to maximize str , dyes +4dex -4str and dynasty light to maximize dex
DD+MM and AS+H
(fewwww it will take some hours :D)
other suggestion?
fontalia
in your test u wrote DYES +4 DEX
ok but.....-4 what? str or con? (dyna heavy...i bet for con but who knows)
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 11:07:53 AM
fontalia
in your test u wrote DYES +4 DEX
ok but.....-4 what? str or con? (dyna heavy...i bet for con but who knows)
Oups sry ^^
STR -4 Dex +4
tnx
so
point till now:
AW (str 41 dex 34) + dyna heavy (+2 str) +4dex -4 str----> 39 str 38 dex
vs
Finisterre PW DEX 35, STR 36 +1 dex from maje light ----> 36 str 36dex
AW result: deadly blow from back
Dead_Count: 400
Land_Count: 303 = 75.75%
PW
made:221
landed :150 = 67.87%
but the most interesting thing comes from backstab
they both have same % ( 94 for AW and 92 for PW)
the nice thing is the succesfull number or crit or lethal
till now everyone thought they were (should...?) based on DEX or STR
well
AW:
Back_Count: 400
Land_Count: 378 = 94.5%
Crit_Count: 46 = 11.5%
Lethal_Count: 32 = 8%
Full_Lethal_Count: 1 = 0.25%
PW : 0.92% 2.77% 26.08% 92% - from back (first number lethal on hp, second lethal on cp third skill crit fourth % landed)
so WHAT?
the char that has lower dex and str has better % in crit and also same % in landing
what can be?
skills are based on NATIVE CLASS stats? (and so the better dex help light elf?)
skills are based on passives? (and so crit chance help light elf?)
skills based on OTHER stats? (like ...dunno CON? or maybe WIT / INT?)
this is situation till now: seems that the only certain thing is we don't have a certain result.
i hope that my th test will help a bit
gogogo with test guys
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 09:18:42 AM
well' now i have some numbers to compare
as soon as possible (it will take some time to land so many skills) i'll test also difference between those setting
no buff (only haste )
th lvl 81 vs ty/wc lvl 81 (i'll put dyes on ty to take him dex-->30 like human basic stat)
dyes : no dyes, dyes +4str -4dex dynasty heavy to maximize str , dyes +4dex -4str and dynasty light to maximize dex
DD+MM and AS+H
(fewwww it will take some hours :D)
other suggestion?
dude AS +H suck, it was good in C4 where fullbuffed you had 1.9k atk speed (in tallum 2.3k) (I was using it also)
but now, CD makes big difference on crits in IL-HB
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 11:55:38 AM
AW (str 41 dex 34) + dyna heavy (+2 str) +4dex -4 str----> 39 str 38 dex
vs
Finisterre PW DEX 35, STR 36 +1 dex from maje light ----> 36 str 36dex
AW result: deadly blow from back
Dead_Count: 400
Land_Count: 303 = 75.75%
PW
made:221
landed :150 = 67.87%
Finisteres test have been made in Interlude you can't compare them with my last test cause we don't know if Drake changed something
mh...yep
btw, your OLD RESULT were made in IL too right?
just to compare your old/new with fini old and my nexdays new
yes
and setup was still the same?
(dyna heavy +4 dex -4 str)
WHY I ASK:
becouse if it's so...
pw with 36 str 36 dex had better chance to land ALL comparet to a aw with 39 str 38 str
ans this is..... DOH
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
and setup was still the same?
(dyna heavy +4 dex -4 str)
I tried a LOT of different setup with TH and AW
600 blow launch for each test
20/03/2009 10:58 <REP> Archer
24/11/2008 18:14 37 459 BackstabASCD19DEX.txt
18/11/2008 19:59 41 389 BackstabASCD29STR.txt
24/11/2008 19:12 41 342 BackstabASCD39DEX.txt
18/11/2008 19:53 68 349 BackstabASCD48STR.txt
24/11/2008 22:56 36 813 DeadlyBlowASCDDHvy+mortalstrikeSkill.txt
24/11/2008 20:45 33 175 DeadlyBlowASCDDHvy.txt
24/11/2008 21:31 33 785 DeadlyBlowDDMSHvy .txt
25/11/2008 00:10 36 676 DeadlyBlowDDMSHvy+mortalstrikeSkill.txt
25/11/2008 01:32 36 567 DeadlyBlowDDMSHvyafterrelog.txt
20/03/2009 10:57 <REP> Septembre 09Septembre09 300 or more blow by test
25/09/2008 18:36 20 881 BackStabMM - DEX30.txt
26/09/2008 19:13 21 607 BackStabMM - no helmet.txt
14/09/2008 04:07 23 032 BackStabMM.txt
25/09/2008 19:03 25 945 BackStabSSCD - DEX30.txt
14/09/2008 04:11 21 882 BackStabSSCD.txt
25/09/2008 19:38 19 726 DeadlyMM - DEX30.txt
26/09/2008 18:32 18 671 DeadlyMM - noHelmet.txt
14/09/2008 04:12 19 784 DeadlyMM.txt
25/09/2008 19:58 17 385 DeadlySSCD - DEX30.txt
26/09/2008 18:51 18 324 DeadlySSCD - noHelmet.txt
14/09/2008 04:14 18 821 DeadlySSCD.txt
15/09/2008 01:51 21 545 GHBackStabSSCD.txt
15/09/2008 01:12 18 149 GHDeadlySSCD.txt
14/09/2008 04:21 21 729 LethalMM.txt
14/09/2008 04:18 20 597 LethalSSCD.txt
well, if u have those test written somewhere...share :)
have a start to make other test is a good choice
Most of them are shared on the forum of course i just need to find the thread if i don't i will share a txt file with all the results (if i am not too lazy :D)
:) u have 1500 post
search all of them is.... omg :)
if u have saved file ,. rar it and upload :)
Quote from: zthrx on June 22, 2009, 11:56:14 AM
dude AS +H suck, it was good in C4 where fullbuffed you had 1.9k atk speed (in tallum 2.3k) (I was using it also)
but now, CD makes big difference on crits in IL-HB
How come it'll make big difference since it increases P.Atack during a Critical Atack,and daggers aren't based on P.Atack.
Checked dmg with +CD and is higher on normal Blows,but didn't check vs a player.
Quote from: Sephiroth on June 22, 2009, 02:55:35 PM
How come it'll make big difference since it increases P.Atack during a Critical Atack,and daggers aren't based on P.Atack.
Checked dmg with +CD and is higher on normal Blows,but didn't check vs a player.
alt all
stop this flame/useless spam
we are not talkin about what weapon what equip watta fuk is better or not
we are simply talkin and searching formula for blow rate
here we don't give a fuk if is better dyna heavy for th/pal or cd vs haste
go spam another post pls
or better
log your th, pw, aw and make some damn test !!!!! :D
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
we are simply talkin and searching formula for blow rate
Check pm i didn't gave ou all the test but you have enought for the moment :p
For the formula try to ask Finisterre he made many test and almost or got it.
Quote from: Dag on June 22, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
alt all
stop this flame/useless spam
we are not talkin about what weapon what equip watta fuk is better or not
we are simply talkin and searching formula for blow rate
here we don't give a fuk if is better dyna heavy for th/pal or cd vs haste
go spam another post pls
or better
log your th, pw, aw and make some damn test !!!!! :D
Flame/useless post?...lol
If u want formula,ask for it,check urself,or w/e(for what the hell u want it?,that's useless to know),but don't tell me that my post was useless,even less in a dagger thread.Apart,all is'bout luck,u'd need to make 384723 tests...
Quote from: Sephiroth on June 22, 2009, 05:07:33 PM
Flame/useless post?...lol
If u want formula,ask for it,check urself,or w/e(for what the hell u want it?,that's useless to know),but don't tell me that my post was useless,even less in a dagger thread.Apart,all is'bout luck,u'd need to make 384723 tests...
U are a moron =-DDDDDD
that's explain the "LONELY" under your avatar =-D
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Quote from: J4cKDan13L on June 22, 2009, 05:11:50 PM
U are a moron =-DDDDDD
that's explain the "LONELY" under your avatar =-D
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
and said by a mage :)
bb
Quote from: J4cKDan13L on June 22, 2009, 05:11:50 PM
U are a moron =-DDDDDD
that's explain the "LONELY" under your avatar =-D
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Look at urself,u've posted to say this bs...make a constructive post mofo.
well at this moment (till infy down)
th lvl 81 no buff (just haste)
all from back of target
dex 34 + angel slayer
deadly blow: succes rate 70% (test made 200 blows)
dex 34 + DD+MM
deadly blow : succes rate 80% (test made 200 blows)
tested also with same setup + CRITICAL BLOW BUFF (the one u get from critical blow skill)
seems strange to me but during this buff rate seems goes lower
on 200 blows (100 with as and 100 with DD) i got
65 % succes with AS
70% with DD
next try:
with DEX lowered to 27
Quote from: Sephiroth on June 22, 2009, 02:55:35 PM
How come it'll make big difference since it increases P.Atack during a Critical Atack,and daggers aren't based on P.Atack.
Checked dmg with +CD and is higher on normal Blows,but didn't check vs a player.
With the right setup and skills *hint hint*, AS haste is pretty awesome.
I dont have any test results, but Angel Slayer haste why is it any good in Hellbound?
Skill reuse isnt affected by attack speed right? So in fact what is the point in having more attack speed, all you need to do is haveing a good blowing rate/ damage rate?
skill reuse IS still affected by
test it with any blow with or without buff like haste :)
thereare skill that has been modified (zealot-->longer reuse) or mirage (atk speed reuse moved to cast speed reuse)
just those
Quote from: Grenix on June 23, 2009, 12:57:43 AM
I dont have any test results, but Angel Slayer haste why is it any good in Hellbound?
Skill reuse isnt affected by attack speed right? So in fact what is the point in having more attack speed, all you need to do is haveing a good blowing rate/ damage rate?
reuse is affected by atk speed, miss c4 where on 1.9k - 2.3k you had no reuse, spammming blows all the time till the end of the mana <3
(and no animation 8))
Quote from: thehunted on June 22, 2009, 11:55:04 PM
With the right setup and skills *hint hint*, AS haste is pretty awesome.
sure in c4, where like I said, you could reach 1.6-19k atk speed = ur reuse skills was rly nice (you can reach 1.6 now with hero skills)
in HB you can get fullbuffed 1.45k and on PP 1.3k so it's better to have good crits now instead of atk speed.
Quote from: zthrx on June 23, 2009, 05:06:41 PM
reuse is affected by atk speed, miss c4 where on 1.9k - 2.3k you had no reuse, spammming blows all the time till the end of the mana <3
(and no animation 8))
sure in c4, where like I said, you could reach 1.6-19k atk speed = ur reuse skills was rly nice (you can reach 1.6 now with hero skills)
in HB you can get fullbuffed 1.45k and on PP 1.3k so it's better to have good crits now instead of atk speed.
Guess I could reach 1,8k A.Speed on dagger thx to Flu.
Good crits? Do u really crit that often? So I'm unlucky...
Quote from: zthrx on June 23, 2009, 05:06:41 PM
reuse is affected by atk speed, miss c4 where on 1.9k - 2.3k you had no reuse, spammming blows all the time till the end of the mana <3
(and no animation 8))
sure in c4, where like I said, you could reach 1.6-19k atk speed = ur reuse skills was rly nice (you can reach 1.6 now with hero skills)
in HB you can get fullbuffed 1.45k and on PP 1.3k so it's better to have good crits now instead of atk speed.
Maybe it would be better to have an haste dagger and some reuse delay buffs where you could spam few blows faster than your target could heal rather than doing a little more dammage. But than you need a pure dagger party since archers dont use those reuse buffs...
(but i can be totally wrong since im not a dagger player :P)
Can actually someone tell me if your p.attack has an effect on your stab dammage? (pictures plx)
Quote from: TomekAlmighty on June 23, 2009, 05:12:26 PM
Can actually someone tell me if your p.attack has an effect on your stab dammage? (pictures plx)
A little, but not really that much.
Damage differs like 100 - 300
About damages it has really low difference , as furesy said 100-300 dmg (depend on what u miss)
if u have to choose slot.... death wisp, fire and cov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than might (and also gr might) pof, warrior dance or p atk pots
Aha, was just thinking about if its worth having all kinds of ressistance buffs + reuse delay buffs insted of p.attack buffs...
It's a shame you never get a pure dagger pt.... without any p.atk boosting buffs you could just build up resistances and use daggerspecific buffs.
You would probably have 1 of the deadliest partties out there.... atleast for smaller non-siege PvP's.
sometimes i play dagger char and i have to admit that i prefer 10 times songs compared to dances
why?
if u have BD in your party u will always have someone screamin that want warrior or conc dance
i LOVE !!!!!!! hunter-wardin-champ-hp-pdef songs (and u really need them, as dagger, or u will never be able to rush your enemy healer and come back to your mates)
after those ones...... u have so low slot :D
Quote from: Dag on June 23, 2009, 05:37:06 PM
sometimes i play dagger char and i have to admit that i prefer 10 times songs compared to dances
why?
if u have BD in your party u will always have someone screamin that want warrior or conc dance
i LOVE !!!!!!! hunter-wardin-champ-hp-pdef songs (and u really need them, as dagger, or u will never be able to rush your enemy healer and come back to your mates)
after those ones...... u have so low slot :D
if U come back to your friends with a POWERSLIDE U are invicible =-)
Quote from: kidicarus on June 23, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
It's a shame you never get a pure dagger pt.... without any p.atk boosting buffs you could just build up resistances and use daggerspecific buffs.
You would probably have 1 of the deadliest partties out there.... atleast for smaller non-siege PvP's.
problem is that be able to create a fulldagger party has a big big weakpoint.
the healer
who is the poor healer that will try to follow them and heal?
btw for sure a party of 5-6 dagger is a big problem (specially if u have there at least 1-2 th/pal)
Well if you think about having an bishop/tank in party + some other dagger/tanks they wouldnt have much problems with healing considering they could all run arround with Shield of faith :P
that they point
THEY could run around like idiots stabbin an blowin
Me, as poor healer, i m usually at 300-400 range from enemy when my daggers are already between them
:)
preferred target
Quote from: Sephiroth on June 23, 2009, 05:10:58 PM
Guess I could reach 1,8k A.Speed on dagger thx to Flu.
Good crits? Do u really crit that often? So I'm unlucky...
backstab is usually crit and takes hp, if you are lucky mages are min 3 blows each
and about dances/songs it depends- if you are daggeer/tank better to have dances coz atk. speed is your only weapon (don't mention blows of coz >.>). If not, better take songs, coz dagger/tank on self has 2.1k def and 1.2-3k m def ::)
Quote from: Dag on June 23, 2009, 05:39:39 PM
problem is that be able to create a fulldagger party has a big big weakpoint.
the healer
who is the poor healer that will try to follow them and heal?
btw for sure a party of 5-6 dagger is a big problem (specially if u have there at least 1-2 th/pal)
Not really..... you could use SoF as tomek mentioned. As long as the daggers don't run far away from the healer for more then like 1 enemy it would work.
Think of the healer as a base.... and all daggers are tied to him with a rubberband... If you wanna kill then use UE mirage and make a quick rush and come right back :P
Quote from: kidicarus on June 23, 2009, 07:02:52 PM
Not really..... you could use SoF as tomek mentioned. As long as the daggers don't run far away from the healer for more then like 1 enemy it would work.
Think of the healer as a base.... and all daggers are tied to him with a rubberband... If you wanna kill then use UE mirage and make a quick rush and come right back :P
there are no even 8 daggers on NM with balls to make a PT and run into the enemy... they can't even understand that SoF means walking UD, so they can run and don't die after couple hits....
most of them use tactic: blow and run...
Quote from: kidicarus on June 23, 2009, 07:02:52 PM
Not really..... you could use SoF as tomek mentioned. As long as the daggers don't run far away from the healer for more then like 1 enemy it would work.
Think of the healer as a base.... and all daggers are tied to him with a rubberband... If you wanna kill then use UE mirage and make a quick rush and come right back :P
yep (i have to test this skill yet, i took it but still not logged in my bp/pal :D)
ps: are u healer? how many times u repeat in a sige DONT RUN FAR FROM ME !
i made a macro to spam this :D
update:
hard to test , infy is up down every 3 mins
btw
yesterday test:
th lvl 81 no buff (just haste)
all from back of target
dex 34 + angel slayer
deadly blow: succes rate 70% (test made 200 blows)
dex 34 + DD+MM
deadly blow : succes rate 80% (test made 200 blows)
tested also with same setup + CRITICAL BLOW BUFF (the one u get from critical blow skill)
seems strange to me but during this buff rate seems goes lower
on 200 blows (100 with as and 100 with DD) i got
65 % succes with AS
70% with DD
today test
th lvl 81 no buff (just haste)
all from back of target
DEX 27 + AS
Blows land rate : 60-65% (test based on 200 blows)
DEX 27 +DD+MM
Blows land rate: 70% (based on 200 blows)
so seems that difference in DEX value of 7% is a + / - 10 % blow land rate
considering problem in testing skill in this way ( maybe i have no luck at all, or too much luck)
we could say that +1 DEX means around +1% blow land rate
there is no interesting difference in damage output (i changed the -4 str + 4 dex with a +1 str -3 dex) before was 1700. now is 1650
most important now is to better test if Critical Blow buff really makes what i tested yesterday: lower blow land rate (at a ...who know ? better lethal chance??)
help from other th in this way is appreciated
k0rina :) here is not for what equip is better
i m testing to finnally have a little test on WHAT influences land rate and HOW
(btw, ofc i used +4 dex +4 con +4 wit....th pp need also buff) and all blows vicious are +9 :)
ps: still need some test, tnx god tonight wife isn't at home so free test :) but seems clear that sa MM still works (and give a good +5+10% on land blows)
again here to ask: TH of dnet, try to test for 10 minutes blows land rate using critical blow buff. im my test i had LOWER land rate during this buff.
is very important
Quote from: Dag on June 23, 2009, 07:36:23 PM
ps: are u healer? how many times u repeat in a sige DONT RUN FAR FROM ME !
i made a macro to spam this :D
I used to say it quite often.... Now i let them die if they get out of my range. /stay close to teh pt leader or die...
Quote from: Dag on June 24, 2009, 11:22:07 AM
k0rina :) here is not for what equip is better
i m testing to finnally have a little test on WHAT influences land rate and HOW
(btw, ofc i used +4 dex +4 con +4 wit....th pp need also buff) and all blows vicious are +9 :)
ps: still need some test, tnx god tonight wife isn't at home so free test :) but seems clear that sa MM still works (and give a good +5+10% on land blows)
again here to ask: TH of dnet, try to test for 10 minutes blows land rate using critical blow buff. im my test i had LOWER land rate during this buff.
is very important
if gives only 5%10% ---why in description is reported 40%? it influences some modificator
Quote from: Dadghamor on June 24, 2009, 12:26:28 PM
if gives only 5%10% ---why in description is reported 40%? it influences some modificator
I believe Mortal Strike effect gets replaced by Assasination somehow, so it works only partialy. You guys ever did tests with C grade Mortal Strike daggers with better MS percentage? Just curious.
that's the point
it SHOULD be the same.
(honestly imho it should add something like mortal strike.... couse th land compared to every other class that have also focus death is ....damn lower)
btw i repeat, it should be the same, and increase lethal rate.
in test i made it lowered the % of landing blow (not so much but...why use a skill if it gives u lesser succes?)
tonight more test
Quote from: k0rina on June 24, 2009, 02:45:41 PM
ok i will tell u smth and make u a bit curious ;) tonight take one as+cd and 1 as+h and test w/0 buff first lethal blow on 1 xx char and then with full buff +visious same skill (but with both daggers) and then when u do it come and say me what u realised ::)
and ull see the difference mainly in dmg coz of VS
man i know that CD add damage on blows
i m talkin about critical blow( the blow of th that gives a buff like mortal strike)
btw:
tested again blows land rate during critical blow buff
again 200 blows with AS and 200 with DD+MM
this time % is near 90 % with both of them
interesting that AS has same land rate as DD when buff is active
once again Test aren't exhaustive
with a -7 dex compared to previous test i had same or even better land rate
Quote from: Dag on June 24, 2009, 07:06:32 PM
man i know that CD add damage on blows
i m talkin about critical blow( the blow of th that gives a buff like mortal strike)
btw:
tested again blows land rate during critical blow buff
again 200 blows with AS and 200 with DD+MM
this time % is near 90 % with both of them
interesting that AS has same land rate as DD when buff is active
once again Test aren't exhaustive
with a -7 dex compared to previous test i had same or even better land rate
maybe you can't get 100%..a sort of cap of landing rate
Quote from: k0rina on June 24, 2009, 10:11:42 PM
again faileD :P cd not add dmg on blows :) just check it.. and then send me pm not spam in topic ;)
Why people never try before speaking?
It was working on IL and it still work
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8748/shot00013u.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/shot00013u.jpg/)
First blow with AS + CD +3 second on with AS +0 (don't tell me that the extra damages are from the +3 :p)
Quote from: fontalia on June 24, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
Why people never try before speaking?
It was working on IL and it still work
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8748/shot00013u.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/shot00013u.jpg/)
First blow with AS + CD +3 second on with AS +0 (don't tell me that the extra damages are from the +3 :p)
th/sk? Oo
Quote from: zthrx on June 23, 2009, 06:53:54 PM
backstab is usually crit and takes hp, if you are lucky mages are min 3 blows each
and about dances/songs it depends- if you are daggeer/tank better to have dances coz atk. speed is your only weapon (don't mention blows of coz >.>). If not, better take songs, coz dagger/tank on self has 2.1k def and 1.2-3k m def ::)
plus a PW has 2 bluffs (bluff and blinding, that makes you turn your back as well) so getting behind someone for a backstab ain't that hard.
OMG, i know some dagger stuff :O
Quote from: WindPhoenix on June 25, 2009, 02:11:10 AM
plus a PW has 2 bluffs (bluff and blinding, that makes you turn your back as well) so getting behind someone for a backstab ain't that hard.
OMG, i know some dagger stuff :O
no, "google ur friend" ::)
Btw guys, any1 tested daggers+Black Blow? I heard you hit more backstab critical with that kind of SA, i bought and tested it, and i feel i hit more, but maybe just bcs i want to feel that :).
Quote from: fontalia on June 25, 2009, 12:54:04 AM
Aw/sk
AW too have lure now :p
I see.... haven't played dagger since c3 :P
Quote from: fontalia on June 24, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
Why people never try before speaking?
It was working on IL and it still work
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8748/shot00013u.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/shot00013u.jpg/)
First blow with AS + CD +3 second on with AS +0 (don't tell me that the extra damages are from the +3 :p)
that extra dmg is becouse you dont have SA in your AS. giving SA to S grade weapon enhance dmg in pvp, thats the key. And about DS+MM, as far as i know when MM SA was dissabled there werent skills like backstab and lehtal strike, so as i read on retail forums that aditional 40 % bonus in landing rate, works only with deadly and mortal blow. anyway this is DNet not retail, so who knows... sry for my english
Quote from: PoFon on June 25, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
Btw guys, any1 tested daggers+Black Blow? I heard you hit more backstab critical with that kind of SA, i bought and tested it, and i feel i hit more, but maybe just bcs i want to feel that :).
This SA name is a "bit" disturbing cause back blow increase critical attack rate and has nothing to do with critical skills.
This is the skill effect use in this SA p_critical_rate_position_bonus you can find it in focus chance, POWind, assasin servitor and some SA.
Quote from: flameOne on June 25, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
that extra dmg is becouse you dont have SA in your AS. giving SA to S grade weapon enhance dmg in pvp, thats the key. And about DS+MM, as far as i know when MM SA was dissabled there werent skills like backstab and lehtal strike, so as i read on retail forums that aditional 40 % bonus in landing rate, works only with deadly and mortal blow. anyway this is DNet not retail, so who knows... sry for my english
OMG you are right ^^ i completly forgot about pvp bonus on SA :p
MM SA affect fatal blow skill it's all blows execpt backstab (on C4 pts don't how it is on DNeT now).
Quote from: Herza on June 25, 2009, 10:15:59 AM
no, "google ur friend" ::)
nope, actually i learned it from F18Hornet, remember i have a level 76 PW? :D
Quote from: k0rina on June 25, 2009, 11:05:03 AM
so u failed again u must go test bef0re speak and btw try haste and cd daggers and u will realise dmg is same
Again? :p
I don't think i failed i will think it as soon as i see a proof :D
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4254/shot00015jci.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/shot00015jci.jpg/)
This time there is 2 crystal dagger one MM +4 the other one CD +3
no soulshot used not vicious stance only death wisper haste
First part with MM second with CD
SA CD on crystal dagger is only 140
But thx for telling that i failled cause with this new test i found something very usefull :D
HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)
In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...
Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA
The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS
The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.
PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)
Quote from: WscieklyWaz on June 27, 2009, 01:07:58 PM
HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)
In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...
Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA
The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS
The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.
PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)
I don't think that +4 str more give u much more blows ::)
I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.
As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... / P.def., the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now
xD
U use +5str? hmm u must be th/xx lowering ur con(which is rly high), on pw/xx or aw/xx that dyes would make char suxor :>
Quote from: WscieklyWaz on June 27, 2009, 01:07:58 PM
HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)
In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...
Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA
The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS
The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.
PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)
I tested the affect of STR on blows in Dragon 15x. The result, STR isn't affecting blows at all..
Quote from: k0rina on June 28, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
u are using + str on dagger ?
u can use +str only on th, elf and dark efl has too less con... and i dont think u want to lower dex lolz
Quote from: WscieklyWaz on June 28, 2009, 06:49:34 PM
u can use +str only on th, elf and dark efl has too less con... and i dont think u want to lower dex lolz
if you use them only for farm...why not
Quote from: SLAYMORE on June 27, 2009, 07:04:42 PM
I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.
As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... / (56 * P.def.) or /(70 * P.def), not quite sure, the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now
xD
it's impossible that you hadn't higher dmg at critical blows between haste and CD
AS + CD vs Dyna dagger +CD - dmg at criticals is 300-450 higher, so it's still not 559 CD bonus of Dyna (Icarus CD bonus is same)
it's from my tests
Quote from: Dadghamor on June 28, 2009, 06:59:58 PM
if you use them only for farm...why not
who use dagger for farm?:d
Quote from: SLAYMORE on June 27, 2009, 07:04:42 PM
I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.
As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... / (56 * P.def.) or /(70 * P.def), not quite sure, the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now
xD
well, all your conclusions are total failure. as+cd is better for oly fights? why? as+h is better for full buffed mass pvps? what for you need that 7 % attack speed boost, since you are full buffed with renwal and champion...and even mirage reuse depends on cast.speed now....and BTW no dagger worth the coins :-D
p.s : calling your self full buffed with CoV...well its your point of view
Quote from: k0rina on June 28, 2009, 11:45:20 PM
u neither check what he said dont make useless spam
you need to check definiton of SPAM, i wrote my experience about using dagger char...maybe you wanna tell me where i was wrong?
flameOne, I guess calling conclusions that you don't fully understand "total failure" is your own way to say you disagree so I won't pick on you now. Instead, I'll try to explain
AS+CD would be better for oly fights because it's more mana-wise than the haste dagger (more damage with less stabs) and there is a significant difference in damage, having in mind your opponent's defensive buffs. Also the boost in attack speed you will get from a haste dagger in oly would be too insignificant because of your own buffs.
AS+H would be better for mass pvps because you will be facing full buffed targets and under that conditions difference in damage between a CD and a haste dagger is minimal. Don't know about you but I would prefer the 150 attack speed more over the ~50 dmg per stab more during a mass pvp in most cases.
As for the CoV part, I think you are totally missing the point - it was a damage test and as such by "full buffed" I meant the buffs that increase dagger skill damage. Why would I take into consideration the fact that CoV slows you down during a test?
zthrx, on what target's p.def. did you get 300-450 damage difference? I doubt I can reach the same, but still, I will re-do my tests. As far as I know you don't play on dragon15x, so I'm getting suspicious about CD working differently in the different servers of this network (note: due to some retarded GMs on dragon15x, we have some custom "fixes", "nerfs" and "adjustments". Example: the CP pots reuse increase, which as far as I know wasn't presented to the other servers of this network)
Quote from: kidicarus on June 23, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
It's a shame you never get a pure dagger pt.... without any p.atk boosting buffs you could just build up resistances and use daggerspecific buffs.
You would probably have 1 of the deadliest partties out there.... atleast for smaller non-siege PvP's.
So last night at teh siege we decided to make a dagger pt with dagger specific buffs..... it wasn't perfect but it really gave a taste of what could be done. No p.atk increasing buffs, only crit power, speed, resistance and manaconsumption/reuse buffs.
And it worked REALLY well.... it was almost scary to look at. Like locusts swarming an enemy pt leaving nothing but dead bodies behind them.
And it wasn't nearly as fragile as i had imagined (had 3ppl with SoF in it though) and with evasion + resistance buffs i didn't have that much to do as a healer other then defend myself.
Im not saying daggers are overpowered here.... But if you get the right buffs and atleast 1 more dagger assisting your target it's a f*cking force of nature.
Quote from: k0rina on June 29, 2009, 12:53:38 PM
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6364/shot00812.jpg how we buff a dagger ... cat buff missing (or cov if prefer) (pof almost same) first buff is from mamm0n :P
cov or pof for dagger? :/ .. speed matters, powind is a MUST for dagger... evasion, more % of dmg from back and doesn't reduce any speed
Music Refresh? :o
Quote from: xD on June 29, 2009, 01:01:39 PM
cov or pof for dagger? :/ .. speed matters, powind is a MUST for dagger... evasion, more % of dmg from back and doesn't reduce any speed
With Songs Dash reuse is less than 14s,so what for more speed?
About Evasion,y,but UE and problem solved,even with COV
About dmg from back,rocks if Bluff lands :-[
Quote from: k0rina on June 29, 2009, 01:08:12 PM
evasion boost on heavy for what ? aw/sk play o tank stats aw/sk isnt example like: th/sws or th/pp is slower but more stronger but if u know how play it its np
I was talking about daggers in Light,cos daggers in Heavy is another story.
In Light,a dagger just need a WC/SWS,archers won't even touch him,and almost no reuse of blows(Haven't checked).
In Heavy,daggers loose one of their strong points,Evasion,but at least they've got higher P.Def,Deflect Arrow,a nice Shield defense rate/power,etc...
Quote from: SLAYMORE on June 29, 2009, 02:12:43 AM
flameOne, I guess calling conclusions that you don't fully understand "total failure" is your own way to say you disagree so I won't pick on you now. Instead, I'll try to explain
AS+CD would be better for oly fights because it's more mana-wise than the haste dagger (more damage with less stabs) and there is a significant difference in damage, having in mind your opponent's defensive buffs. Also the boost in attack speed you will get from a haste dagger in oly would be too insignificant because of your own buffs.
AS+H would be better for mass pvps because you will be facing full buffed targets and under that conditions difference in damage between a CD and a haste dagger is minimal. Don't know about you but I would prefer the 150 attack speed more over the ~50 dmg per stab more during a mass pvp in most cases.
As for the CoV part, I think you are totally missing the point - it was a damage test and as such by "full buffed" I meant the buffs that increase dagger skill damage. Why would I take into consideration the fact that CoV slows you down during a test?
zthrx, on what target's p.def. did you get 300-450 damage difference? I doubt I can reach the same, but still, I will re-do my tests. As far as I know you don't play on dragon15x, so I'm getting suspicious about CD working differently in the different servers of this network (note: due to some retarded GMs on dragon15x, we have some custom "fixes", "nerfs" and "adjustments". Example: the CP pots reuse increase, which as far as I know wasn't presented to the other servers of this network)
oki doki, i got your point now, but i disagree ;D
Quote from: Dag on June 24, 2009, 07:06:32 PM
man i know that CD add damage on blows
i m talkin about critical blow( the blow of th that gives a buff like mortal strike)
btw:
tested again blows land rate during critical blow buff
again 200 blows with AS and 200 with DD+MM
this time % is near 90 % with both of them
interesting that AS has same land rate as DD when buff is active
once again Test aren't exhaustive
with a -7 dex compared to previous test i had same or even better land rate
Dag, when u make those tests u should go for a higher number of blows. Higher number=Higher possiblity to create a statistic similar to real, not based on luck about landing rate %. Try to do it especially about Critical Blow buff which were u talking some days ago, i'll try to do the same later or tomorrow.
Dag got the answer of his questions.
Landing rates aren't affected by stats but something else that can't be seen by players or can be changed by them :)
Quote from: Dag on June 24, 2009, 07:06:32 PM
with a -7 dex compared to previous test i had same or even better land rate
ofc, cuz dex has nohing to do with landing rate, hb changed whole mechanics. You prolly added dye +str, thats why u had better result, now str is important for dagger.
Quote from: Anemonia on June 30, 2009, 03:19:32 PM
Dag got the answer of his questions.
Landing rates aren't affected by stats but something else that can't be seen by players or can be changed by them :)
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :)
don't share knowledge if they don't waste time on testing :)
well.
btw, how to say..... consider blow land rate as a ...fixed value.
it isn't STAT affected, but BUFF (who said focus death?) so...... take dyes u like.... they will affect just things u can see ingame. (p atk, hp, speed etc)
(tnx god i still have a MM dagger)
Quote from: Torek [IF] on July 01, 2009, 06:59:34 PM
cazzo hai scoperto che i dagatori sono stati creati a cazzo di cane xD....confortate non è vero?
adesso verrai arrestato da drake x aver scoperto sta cosa xD
:) dai e stato gentile, l ha spiegato proprio lui che son fatti cosi
certo che e sconfortante cazzo