Your dagger experience (maybe a GM/coder can explain?)

[WscieklyWaz]

U use +5str? hmm u must be th/xx lowering ur con(which is rly high), on pw/xx or aw/xx that dyes would make char suxor :>

[thehunted]

HB really messed up with dagger stats. Till interlude every1 were running around with +4dex+5con-9str dyes and were happy killer. Since HB STR is important for daggers. It affects 3 things:
-Lethal land rate (the both types of lethals 100% and the other)
-landing rate of blows(this thing isnt rly important when ur pw or aw becouse of focus death, which makes ur landing rate around 90% or more)
-skill critical rate(when u use skill and its wrote like "critical hit!" and dmg is doubled, like glads and tyrants skills, not the normal melee crits)

In IL every1 said that DEX affect landing rate etc. In HB it doesnt really affect the "skill(blows) connected things". I personaly use it only cuz it increases speed, atk speed(reuse time), evastion, melee crit rate. I dont know if it increase crit dmg...

Landing rate of blows is only affected by 3 skills (and probably STR since HB):
- assasination, which gives +7% chance
- focus death(changes the dmg too, less dmg from front, more from back)
- and MM, the old C3 DemonDagger SA

The damage of blows bases on Critical damage so:
-passive Critical power
-CD in dagger
-Buff DW
-Dance of fire
-VS

The things i wrote are confirmed for retail. But it should be similar here. Anyway, if we go that way the AW should be the best dagger ever: biggest dmg from blows(passives), highest lethal landing rate(highest str). I played aw/sk and pw/sws here. And aw rly has dmg much bigger, but pw obtain more lethals for sure. Thats ok cuz pw have to has his own adventage, otherwise with such low dmg woudnt be playable at all. But this makes no sense with the all i wrote. My only explenation is that passive Critical change affects lethal landing rate too(pw has lvl 4, aw lvl or doesnt have at all. That would make sense.

PS. Im sure STR affects lethal landing rate i changed dyes from -9str to -4str and i got more lathals for sure (on both chars)

I tested the affect of STR on blows in Dragon 15x. The result, STR isn't affecting blows at all..

[WscieklyWaz]

u are using + str on dagger ?

u can use +str only on th, elf and dark efl has too less con... and i dont think u want to lower dex lolz

[Dadghamor]

u can use +str only on th, elf and dark efl has too less con... and i dont think u want to lower dex lolz

if you use them only for farm...why not

[zthrx]

I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.

As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... / (56 * P.def.) or /(70 * P.def), not quite sure, the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now

xD

it's impossible that you hadn't higher dmg at critical blows between haste and CD
AS + CD vs Dyna dagger +CD - dmg at criticals is 300-450 higher, so it's still not 559 CD bonus of Dyna (Icarus CD bonus is same)
it's from my tests

[WscieklyWaz]

if you use them only for farm...why not

who use dagger for farm?:d

[flameOne]

I really doubt STR affect landing rate. For skill critical rate and lethal rate - yes STR probably increases them (same was rumored on official servers and I noticed a huge boost in them when I switched from -9 STR to a +5 STR setup). STR is also important because of two other reasons which I won't share for now.

As for CD vs Haste daggers, I can say k0rina is generally right, however, he did not express himself correctly. The thing is that damage difference between a CD and a Haste dagger is not constant, but since the whole damage formula ends in .... / (56 * P.def.) or /(70 * P.def), not quite sure, the difference decreases with the increase of your target's P.def.
This means that while difference can be 150-200 damage when stabbing an NPC, it will be much lower when stabbing a 2k P.def. target. If someone claims that the damage difference between CD and Haste dagger is constant, I can just say that this isn't mathematically possible..
Here is what I found out yesterday about damage difference with a 48 STR full buffed (DW, fire dance, cov, cat buff) AW/SK vs a full buffed 2,2k p.def. HE/WK target
I used 4 weapons to compare the damages: AS+H+3, AS+CD+5, Icarus disperser+CD+0, AS+CD+12 and what I noticed was that:
-damage difference on stabs between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+5 is ~50 damage per stab
-icarus desperser+CD+0 and AS+CD+12 deal almost the same damage (AS+CD+12 does a little more)
-damage difference between AS+CD+5 and AS+CD+12/Icarus+CD+0 is ~50 damage per stab
-damage difference between AS+H+3 and AS+CD+12/Icarus disperser+CD+0 is ~100 damage per stab
The conclusions I made were as follow:
-AS+CD is still better for oly fights
-AS+H is better for full buffed fights like mass pvps
-Icarus+CD is not worth the coins
-and few others which I won't share for now

xD

well, all your conclusions are total failure. as+cd is better for oly fights? why?  as+h is better for full buffed mass pvps? what for you need that 7 % attack speed boost, since you are full buffed with renwal and champion...and even mirage reuse depends on cast.speed now....and BTW no dagger worth the coins :-D
p.s : calling your self full buffed with CoV...well its your point of view

[flameOne]

u neither check what he said dont make useless spam

you need to check definiton of SPAM, i wrote my experience about using dagger char...maybe you wanna tell me where i was wrong?

[SLAYMORE]

 flameOne, I guess calling conclusions that you don't fully understand "total failure" is your own way to say you disagree so I won't pick on you now. Instead, I'll try to explain
AS+CD would be better for oly fights because it's more mana-wise than the haste dagger (more damage with less stabs) and there is a significant difference in damage, having in mind your opponent's defensive buffs. Also the boost in attack speed you will get from a haste dagger in oly would be too insignificant because of your own buffs.
AS+H would be better for mass pvps because you will be facing full buffed targets and under that conditions difference in damage between  a CD and a haste dagger is minimal. Don't know about you but I would prefer the 150 attack speed more over the ~50 dmg per stab more during a mass pvp in most cases.
As for the CoV part, I think you are totally missing the point - it was a damage test and as such by "full buffed" I meant the buffs that increase dagger skill damage. Why would I take into consideration the fact that CoV slows you down during a test?


zthrx, on what target's p.def. did you get 300-450 damage difference? I doubt I can reach the same, but still, I will re-do my tests. As far as I know you don't play on dragon15x, so I'm getting suspicious about CD working differently in the different servers of this network (note: due to some retarded GMs on dragon15x, we have some custom "fixes", "nerfs" and "adjustments". Example: the CP pots reuse increase, which as far as I know wasn't presented to the other servers of this network)

[kidicarus]

It's a shame you never get a pure dagger pt.... without any p.atk boosting buffs you could just build up resistances and use daggerspecific buffs.
You would probably have 1 of the deadliest partties out there.... atleast for smaller non-siege PvP's.

So last night at teh siege we decided to make a dagger pt with dagger specific buffs..... it wasn't perfect but it really gave a taste of what could be done. No p.atk increasing buffs, only crit power, speed, resistance and manaconsumption/reuse buffs.

And it worked REALLY well.... it was almost scary to look at. Like locusts swarming an enemy pt leaving nothing but dead bodies behind them.
And it wasn't nearly as fragile as i had imagined (had 3ppl with SoF in it though) and with evasion + resistance buffs i didn't have that much to do as a healer other then defend myself.

Im not saying daggers are overpowered here.... But if you get the right buffs and atleast 1 more dagger assisting your target it's a f*cking force of nature.

[xD]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6364/shot00812.jpg  how we buff a dagger ...   cat buff missing (or cov if prefer) (pof almost same)   first buff is from mamm0n

cov or pof for dagger? :/ .. speed matters, powind is a MUST for dagger... evasion, more % of dmg from back and doesn't reduce any speed

[Sephiroth]

Music Refresh? 

cov or pof for dagger? :/ .. speed matters, powind is a MUST for dagger... evasion, more % of dmg from back and doesn't reduce any speed

With Songs Dash reuse is less than 14s,so what for more speed?
About Evasion,y,but UE and problem solved,even with COV
About dmg from back,rocks if Bluff lands