Some people spoiled lots of rcp's/key's for sets (tons of it) while spoil rate was x6 and u lowered it after 2 days(people didn't expected that) and no the other players can't make the set.
Quote from: @MaTi on January 30, 2014, 07:28:03 PM
Some people spoiled lots of rcp's/key's for sets (tons of it) while spoil rate was x6 and u lowered it after 2 days(people didn't expected that) and no the other players can't make the set.
spoil rate is ok. problem is spoil chance ( turn to blue ) and this isnt normal.
Quote from: Cromatorus on January 30, 2014, 07:30:11 PM
spoil rate is ok. problem is spoil chance ( turn to blue ) and this isnt normal.
What you just said makes absolutely no sense.
I was expecting higher spoil rates....current rate ruined it for me..
Quote from: remeron on January 30, 2014, 07:43:16 PM
I was expecting higher spoil rates....current rate ruined it for me..
There's nothing wrong with the spoil rate. The probel is that they changed it AFTER some people got a lot of a grade.
Quote from: nbx on January 30, 2014, 07:46:43 PM
There's nothing wrong with the spoil rate. The probel is that they changed it AFTER some people got a lot of a grade.
true and its not my fault that I can't play like nolife ^^
I know why they would lower rates...I just don't like it and I don't wanna spoil for countless hours for a measley a grade recipe..that doesn't mean I should go play on a xxxx rated server, I'd just prefer more reasonable rates thats all...
Quote from: nbx on January 30, 2014, 07:41:54 PM
What you just said makes absolutely no sense.
i stil sweep spoil x4
but chance to "turn to blue"is very low
Quote from: Cromatorus on January 30, 2014, 08:00:02 PM
i stil sweep spoil x4
but chance to "turn to blue"is very low
He means spoil quantity by rate, and chance to get blue by spoil chance(rate). There should be old x5 rate and x1-3 quantity on mats, 1-2 on parts and 1 on everything else. If u mad because of enchant's just make x2 rate for EWS only.
Quote from: Falatko on January 30, 2014, 08:14:42 PM
About parts should be x1
There wont be a lot weapons anyway if rate for spoil is x3 on the highest level spoiling all weapon parts will take such a loooooong time, god bless dualswords
On higher levels parts aren't problem, so parts can remain on 1-2x to help get parts for lower level eq (c and b)
Isnt it like 4 or 5 days since it has been changed already?
Quote from: Vendettacz on January 30, 2014, 08:21:52 PM
Isnt it like 4 or 5 days since it has been changed already?
6 i think
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on January 30, 2014, 08:35:37 PM
6 i think
yeah and from 6 days ppl still complain about it, ofc other ppl which spoiled a lot of mats and others things are happy they made it till your "fix" ^^ anyway I will always love old good inifnity 8)
Quote from: Cromatorus on January 30, 2014, 08:00:02 PM
i stil sweep spoil x4
but chance to "turn to blue"is very low
you don't know how spoiling works. if they don't turn blue it's becouse none of the things that could be spoiled appeared, so it won't turn blue, you'll be able to sweep it and that's the proof the spoil rate is low, I haven't got to the point where I go to beast farm going for dc recipes so I don't know how long will it take me. I hope there's a little too much crying over this.
Rates are definitely harder, but it's worth it. If you want A grade, you have to work for it.
Quote from: Sanguchesco on January 30, 2014, 10:38:01 PM
you don't know how spoiling works. if they don't turn blue it's becouse none of the things that could be spoiled appeared, so it won't turn blue, you'll be able to sweep it and that's the proof the spoil rate is low, I haven't got to the point where I go to beast farm going for dc recipes so I don't know how long will it take me. I hope there's a little too much crying over this.
i play spoil very long. Since 8 years spoil rate was 100%?? OR meybe now all "Works".
Only 2 mobs was hard to spoil on whole serwer ( stakato nest , beast farm).
Now is this same situation with this "two mobs" but on whole server. And its in big way fould of lvl. Like write: 61 lvl cant spoil 59 but 55-56 can.... When i was on this lvl me spoil succes was 100% now its 40%
Quote from: @MaTi on January 30, 2014, 07:28:03 PM
Some people spoiled lots of rcp's/key's for sets (tons of it) while spoil rate was x6 and u lowered it after 2 days(people didn't expected that) and no the other players can't make the set.
We changed nothing, it same curve as on graph.
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on January 30, 2014, 11:10:43 PM
We changed nothing, it same curve as on graph.
That's kind of the problem. See, a lot of people(including us) spoiled a lot of recipes while the spoil rate was fix 5x(or 6x, I'm not sure), while others, who have been late even by a few hours has to deal with ~3x spoil rate, which is half of the chance others had. That's freaked up.
Current spoil rate is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. The problem is that you changed it WAY too late, days after the server went live. Basically, there is nothing wrong with making someting hard, but making it harder AFTER some of the players made it the easy way is outrageous.
Quote from: nbx on January 30, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
That's kind of the problem. See, a lot of people(including us) spoiled a lot of recipes while the spoil rate was fix 5x(or 6x, I'm not sure), while others, who have been late even by a few hours has to deal with ~3x spoil rate, which is half of the chance others had. That's freaked up.
Current spoil rate is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. The problem is that you changed it WAY too late, days after the server went live. Basically, there is nothing wrong with making someting hard, but making it harder AFTER some of the players made it the easy way is outrageous.
In all do respect to everyone, even the multi billion companies who makes errors like this. I remember ive been playing some of them and after day or 2 after obvious higher drop of some items , they changed drop rate. That happened same to us, because of our own mistake. We was working on the server and by accident some numbers are left there by mistake , thats why we was shocked watching our SQL graphs we use to monitor servers actions. After we realized where was the error we simply changed it to the original value we have now, in other words this things happen. Materials they spoiled will be depleted in time and rate will be (is) same for everyone. Thats just it. If companies with huge amount of employees can make such errors , well it can happen to us too.
Quote from: nbx on January 30, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
Current spoil rate is fine. There is nothing wrong with it.
omg bicz please....
In your opinion if im on this same lvl as mob and spoil dont work is ok???
And if im 62 lvl and i can spoils mob 70-74 is normal??
Quote from: Cromatorus on January 30, 2014, 11:35:02 PM
omg bicz please....
In your opinion if im on this same lvl as mob and spoil dont work is ok???
And if im 62 lvl and i can spoils mob 70-74 is normal??
After reading your posts in the past few days/weeks, I can say I am 100% sure you have no idea how spoil works. Actually, you have no idea about anything in this game that isn't oldstyle DN custom. You don't even know what rate means. All you do on this forum is crying about ridiculous shit.
It might be just your 12 years old swaglord attitude with your terrible english that makes you look this way though.
QuoteIn all do respect to everyone, even the multi billion companies who makes errors like this. I remember ive been playing some of them and after day or 2 after obvious higher drop of some items , they changed drop rate. That happened same to us, because of our own mistake. We was working on the server and by accident some numbers are left there by mistake , thats why we was shocked watching our SQL graphs we use to monitor servers actions. After we realized where was the error we simply changed it to the original value we have now, in other words this things happen. Materials they spoiled will be depleted in time and rate will be (is) same for everyone. Thats just it. If companies with huge amount of employees can make such errors , well it can happen to us too.
Well, that's something that won't change anymore(at least I hope so), so there is no point in arguing about it. :)
Btw I feel like sometimes you can't express yourself the way you want(maybe due to english being a second language to you, this happens a lot to me too) and what you want to say comes off the wrong way, which causes a lot of misunderstandings around here. Ofc the fact that half of the people on these forum can't even form an understandable sentence doesn't help with that.
Quote from: nbx on January 31, 2014, 12:11:18 AM
After reading your posts in the past few days/weeks, I can say I am 100% sure you have no idea how spoil works. Actually, you have no idea about anything in this game that isn't oldstyle DN custom. You don't even know what rate means. All you do on this forum is crying about ridiculous shit.
It might be just your 12 years old swaglord attitude with your terrible english that makes you look this way though.
Well, that's something that won't change anymore(at least I hope so), so there is no point in arguing about it. :)
Btw I feel like sometimes you can't express yourself the way you want(maybe due to english being a second language to you, this happens a lot to me too) and what you want to say comes off the wrong way, which causes a lot of misunderstandings around here. Ofc the fact that half of the people on these forum can't even form an understandable sentence doesn't help with that.
Uhm , what did i said wrong :( ? I mean which part i didn't explain well?
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on January 31, 2014, 12:13:15 AM
Uhm , what did i said wrong :( ? I mean which part i didn't explain well?
Things like:
QuoteAfter we realized where was the error we simply changed it to the original value we have now
Like calling this the "original value", while the original value was a fix number(I'm not even sure what was it, maybe x4 or x5) and not this dynamic rate. I mean I'm pretty sure I know what you meant by "original value", but it doesn't actually mean what you wanted to say(since, ya know, it means the original x4 or x5 rate).
Just little things like that can produce a lot of confusion, especially to people who's english is really bad or even to native speakers with good grammar who are not experienced in reading "internet english"(like your's or mine). :)
Quote from: nbx on January 31, 2014, 12:24:28 AM
Things like:
Like calling this the "original value", while the original value was a fix number(I'm not even sure what was it, maybe x4 or x5) and not this dynamic rate. I mean I'm pretty sure I know what you meant by "original value", but it doesn't actually mean what you wanted to say(since, ya know, it means the original x4 or x5 rate).
Just little things like that can produce a lot of confusion, especially to people who's english is really bad or even to native speakers with good grammar who are not experienced in reading "internet english"(like your's or mine). :)
Ah okay, thanks. But i guess you got it :)
you also should check the spoil on "stakato nest" the spoil is really fuked up... if you check any base of drops/stoil (x1) you will see that is really harder on this server... like x4 worse spoil than on x1, check it thanks
for example "spiked stakato" lvl 72 should be spoiled for sop with 1/2 chance... and if u check on the spoil list that server gives it says 1/20
There is really no way that it can be worse than 1x.
The curve is really perfectly applied.
Anyway i'm thinking of solutions around spoil (without raise the dynamic curve), we will see in next days.
6x was ok for lv30-40 but for lv80, with current exp rate, is clearly exaggerated.
By boosting spoil is then required to boost drops too (else we can change the name to Craftage2 (even if the name is not far distant from reality))
Boosting drops then will be rains of full items... and so on... (is a neverending cycle)
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop
tarantula full droplist, should be plently useful.
monster location will be added later (meanwhile refer to monster locations of dragon)
Quote from: =drake= on January 31, 2014, 05:44:05 AM
6x was ok for lv30-40 but for lv80, with current exp rate, is clearly exaggerated.
By boosting spoil is then required to boost drops too (else we can change the name to Craftage2 (even if the name is not far distant from reality))
Boosting drops then will be rains of full items... and so on... (is a neverending cycle)
Test and do all this experiments on open Beta, there is reason why they keep a open beta to "Test Things" we have no assurance now that you will not mess with it again, and when you do something that affects the game even in a minor way that some people gain an advantage over others, clearly the first ones who built spoilers now have a boosting advantage over others who have to drain themselves to get even a DC robe set done, so eventually it gives the earlybirds to farm RB's and have an even more advantage, this is the simplest thing I can think off, there will be a lot more effect in the market as well, I know you people have been doing a lot to make this Interlude even more interesting, but in the end you are only making it a Fail server, you are just not noticing it because there is a heavy population and people are already loosing [ like me ], already because of the exp drop curve looks like I need to no life if I need to do anything substantial with regard to helping clan, so I am least interested in exping now, So my secondary aspect is gearing up, others in my clan have geared up and when I want to do it, I have to spend double the time because spoil rate is now 3x from 6x, again not willing to do it,
Just wanna tell you that, Interlude is freaking 7 Years old, and we are just playing it because of stack subs and balance of classes in pvp, we have seen all areas in Interlude, all epics and every raid boss, and nothing in interlude would make it interesting in pve.
well just for you to understand certain things I am writing this, I am quitting server due to these reasons
1.Don't like the slow exp rate, too tedious, don't wanna no life
2.Change in spoil rates often, make it unfair for certain people, made life harder now
3.No fun in Interlude till sub, to 79 to sub only then I will have something interesting to do, 79 looks like 3 months for the time I spend [ don't wanna box buffers, I am AW and if I sub atleast I will have BD and PP buffs ]
well those are the 3 main reasons, and also you need to understand, when one player in a CP quits, the CP becomes useless till they find another one, so if you guys have the assumption that lets try all these rate changes now, even if a small amount of people quit, it will eventually lead to a lot of people leaving over time, like my CP if I leave we won't have even 2 CP complete in clan, so more people will loose interest and just quit.
we can stand DDoS or crashes or other technical factors, but if you make the curve harder for new people to play, its ridiculous.
well thanks for the efforts offering us a different lineage2 experience free of cost.
Cheers
Quote from: Falatko on January 31, 2014, 08:56:32 AM
to HOUSE: dont want quote ur long post but looks like u did not play on dragon or any stacksub server before and u should count with drastic changes during the time u play on server and if u r not able to handle them just leave np, there were always some changes like nerfing classes to total useless, spoil issues or quest issues and so on
sure I played, thats why I am leaving, not used to random server specs/changes
past week made loads of money on CBP spoil at nos, 1 nos gave 2-3 CBP , so per buff round I made 90-100 CBP , now its only 40-50 CBP per buff round, so its ok if we get 2x mats last week and 1x this week ?, I have an unfair advantage, and look at how many people spoiled other mats at higher lvls?, If you say its fair or even rectifiable and give me a reason for it I will play, for me its just an "Known exploit" for people who spoiled and regarding previous DN, mistake made twice doesn't make it right, or just not enough for people to get used to it, there is a reason why you make an open beta, there is a reason why you announce exp/spoil rates before you start server. It's called
"Failing to keep up balance"PS : please don't reply "just leave np" , because you turn to be that junk head who just wants to play regardless of whatever happens and you have no knowledge how an MMORPG works.
Quote from: House on January 31, 2014, 09:16:42 AM
sure I played, thats why I am leaving, not used to random server specs/changes
past week made loads of money on CBP spoil at nos, 1 nos gave 2-3 CBP , so per buff round I made 90-100 CBP , now its only 40-50 CBP per buff round, so its ok if we get 2x mats last week and 1x this week ?, I have an unfair advantage
This guy has a point.
I checked several spots today with leather/steel. Mobs which used to give me 2 -3 leather or steel from spoil, now give me 1. Well...for me at the moment, it is not a problem cuz I made already my money on it. I collected enought leather to make Crafted Leather from it for my DC Robe Set, and even had a lot more for sell. But the point is what about ppl who are just getting started, making spoilers atm, cuz they couldnt do it earlier. Someone had plans for exemple - "This week I lvl up my main, next week I am gonnaspoil the crap out of these mobs xa0xa0x0ax". He is kinda f-word atm.
Quote from: nbx on January 31, 2014, 12:11:18 AM
After reading your posts in the past few days/weeks, I can say I am 100% sure you have no idea how spoil works. Actually, you have no idea about anything in this game that isn't oldstyle DN custom. You don't even know what rate means. All you do on this forum is crying about ridiculous shit.
It might be just your 12 years old swaglord attitude with your terrible english that makes you look this way though.
First im older then u.
2nd log on any other server IL and make spoil and check what should works....
3rd. Ur knowlage about l2 is this same like knowlage of artur..
Quote from: House on January 31, 2014, 09:16:42 AM
past week made loads of money on CBP spoil at nos, 1 nos gave 2-3 CBP , so per buff round I made 90-100 CBP , now its only 40-50 CBP per buff round, so its ok if we get 2x mats last week and 1x this week ?, I have an unfair advantage, and look at how many people spoiled other mats at higher lvls?, If you say its fair or even rectifiable and give me a reason for it I will play, for me its just an "Known exploit" for people who spoiled and regarding previous DN, mistake made twice doesn't make it right, or just not enough for people to get used to it, there is a reason why you make an open beta, there is a reason why you announce exp/spoil rates before you start server. It's called "Failing to keep up balance"
http://forum.dragon-community.net/index.php/topic,279871.0.html
:'( ???
When open beta comes to end are we getting wipe? ;D
To ppl who dont know. Yesterday/Today spoil was again changed lol.
n/c.....
you wont keep this community, dat server is going be faster than i thought
Quote from: =drake= on January 31, 2014, 02:43:11 AM
There is really no way that it can be worse than 1x.
The curve is really perfectly applied.
Anyway i'm thinking of solutions around spoil (without raise the dynamic curve), we will see in next days.
your frop calculator: http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?from_level=0&id=22105&name=[]&server_id=1
20% of spoil it...
If u check the mob on the server = 1/20= 5%
Quote from: stanxoo on January 31, 2014, 11:19:23 AM
you wont keep this community, dat server is going be faster than i thought
I didnt expect such sentance from you but okay. Really all but not you.
@House
Spoil is how it is now,and it wont change. I already explained reasons in other topics. Since you are soo expirienced player in MMORPGs you do know and understsnd these thing happen even on other games (°hi diablo°hi poe°hi aion°hi rfit). Throwing your opinion toward rest of the community saying its their opinion is false and rather rude. We do respect your opinion and you have always choice to play somewhere else to please your high requierments. If you decide to do so, we wish you best of luck. Of course if you decide to stay, we will keep up the good work as we are trying everyday.
I winder thou what is your ping since playing from India? And if you dont mind after you disable p. to tell me your name in game (you can do it even pm) so i can check how much time youve spent here in order to claim such things you said above.
IMPORTANT notice : For all Server admins,gms, users of other servers: we are fully resoecting your work in l2 matter. However mind your own servers and forums and stop making fake profiles here to troll, its not nice at all especially when dn never did anything similar in past 10 years. Have some respect at least.
Thank you
Thanks track for freaking up the spoil on server. You can have x1 mats on official server with hordes of bots farming it all the day, but not on the server with multiplied exp/sp rates with x1 spoil, that's more than ridiculous. There is only few spots to gather materials and they r full all the time, so no point of spoiling for solo players. Good job drake and track, u r on good way to make me leave this server.
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on January 31, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
However mind your own servers and forums and stop making fake profiles here to troll, its not nice at all especially when dn never did anything similar in past 10 years. Have some respect at least.
Thank you
I still remember the HI GUYS I AM MANDRAKE AND DRAKE SOLD ME THE SERVERS SO I WILL BE THE NEW ADMIN AND DRAKE BYEBYE thingy from c4. I dont care what happend or whatever since it was like 7years ago, but meh, there were a few cheap tricks before 'in the past 10 years'.
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on January 31, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
I didnt expect such sentance from you but okay. Really all but not you.
Same I can tell about You, I had Dnet as one of THE BEST private servers, but u made a little beta while server life, I know u can't except everything, but u shouldnt change spoil/drop rate while life, sorry bro but it's VERY VERY unfair. I shouldnt have problems because I've got my dc robe set and all mats for 2x AM, but still care about rest of community, peace.
Sorry but who complains about spoil is straight ridiculous now.
Lets explain it 1 time only for god sake:
A) Rates goes exactly like the curve you see in:
http://www.dragon-network.net/stats/tar/rates.htm
B) parts of equip for craft have 1.5x increased over it
C) generic mats (leather/crafted leather/etc...) have 2x over the curve
In simple terms, at level 80, spoil is:
A) 2.5x for everything except B and C
B) 3.75x for parts of equip for craft (2.5*1.5)
C) 5x for generic mats like crafted leather (2.5*2)
Now, this extra 1.5 and 2.5x can be implemented in TWO ways:
method 1:
change the MAX QUANTITY.
an 1.5x translates in 2x on max quantity.
a 2x translates in 3x on max quantity.
because, example of 1.5x, if item was 1-1 drop, it becomes 1-2 and means on average you get 1.5 in quantity (1 or 2). Same applies to all other possible number combinations. And
method 2: (currently active as everyone complained for a week about spoil rates)
change the CHANCES
straight put the 1.5x and the 2.5x CHANCE rate directly to the chance without alter the quantity.
What is the difference?
For a key mats, with the extra 2x rate for example on Crafted Leather, instead of kill 3 mobs and have ONE mob giving 3 items and two mobs giving nothing you end up having EACH mob giving 1!
On 100 mobs you get the exactly same.
Drake, u dont get the point. To craft a higher grade weapon u need thousands of mats for recipe 60% that can fail. We have multiplied exp rates, so we exp faster. Higher spoil chance on higher level where mobs have 1/1 or 1/2 chance by default is quite lame isn't it? Since we don't have hordes of bots that official servers have we can't get enough mats by spoil. The only useful way of get mats without spending all the time on spoil is manor which will be dominated by few players that will use advantage of 3rd party programs(don't tell me this isn't possible, because there is plenty of bots working here). Old rate was good, with previous fixed rates and multiplied quanitity there will be players that speciallize on spoiling and craft that provide not that expensive equipment. Old dragon servers had multiplied quantity and high spoil chance on mats and nobody cries, things that ruined these servers was the BEWS events and +++ weapons from gm's.
can you explain me how your description works for mobes x4 HP?
Because on all servers i play mobes x4 HP shold give more than 1, same shold be here.
In this table http://www.dragon-network.net/stats/tar/rates.htm
for mob lvl 51 Drop/Spoil is 3.9 and those are mobes
http://dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=21197&server_id=1&from_level=0
http://dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=21176&server_id=1&from_level=0
Quantity of spoil per 1 mob is 1 - 11
so tell me how it is possible that 3.9(your dynamic rate) x 1(lowest chance per spoil) = 1 item spoiled??
This i had 5 days ago.
Situation form yday. We farmed GC for 4h and in 4h we didnt spoil not even 1 EWB
http://dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=21060&server_id=1&from_level=0
Chance is 0.569 * 3.4 (dynamic) = 1,9346% = ~2%
so in 4h where have 2% i spoiled 0 items? kinda strange.
The values you see there are already pre-calculated over the dynamic rate.
You have to add/remove nothing from those values.
http://dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=21176&server_id=1&from_level=0
the EnchantScroll is 0.569% AFTER the dynamic rate.
the original 1x rate of that item was 0.1672%
Quote from: Painkiler on January 31, 2014, 02:53:45 PM
Drake, u dont get the point. To craft a higher grade weapon u need thousands of mats for recipe 60% that can fail. We have multiplied exp rates, so we exp faster. Higher spoil chance on higher level where mobs have 1/1 or 1/2 chance by default is quite lame isn't it? Since we don't have hordes of bots that official servers have we can't get enough mats by spoil. The only useful way of get mats without spending all the time on spoil is manor which will be dominated by few players that will use advantage of 3rd party programs(don't tell me this isn't possible, because there is plenty of bots working here). Old rate was good, with previous fixed rates and multiplied quanitity there will be players that speciallize on spoiling and craft that provide not that expensive equipment.
Ok i get your point about items that had already 99% spoil rate (after the 2.5x) and had no boosts from this extra 2x but instead they was getting it from the extra 3x on max quantity.
This thing is "unfair" for high level players as they usually reach the 99% without the extra 1.5/2.5x. (current system favors low level because of the caplimit of 99%)
I'm preparing an update about that today (will go up tomorrow morning) that should close the spoil case once and for all:
IF an item, after the extra 1.5x or 2x, goes OVER 99%, the extra % gets converted in max quantity.
So, example of Crafted Leather (is extra 2x item):
a) if mob spoils it with 5%, it becomes 10%
b) if mob spoil it 80%, it becomes 160%. So translates to 99% spoil rate and extra 61% that gets converted in +1 max quantity (+1 max quantity for each 50% accumulated).
After this fix i see no other stuffs related to dynamic rate of spoil to touch.Quote
Old dragon servers had multiplied quantity and high spoil chance on mats and nobody cries,
Tarantula at start had NO increased mats quantity but the rate was fixed 3x (of first day) and became 6x on 3rd day.
already right now the spoil rate is basically higher than at begin.
And about cryes about spoil, please see forum posts on dragon board where there is a neverending cry (now they complain spoil is too high, for years they complained was too low (tarantula have 10 days!!))
In this moment tarantula have even HIGHER spoil than actual dragon... (dragon is fixed 4x spoil)
Don't pair Interlude servers with H5 servers. Old IL dragon had x5 quantity on mats and hordes of bots playing.
Quote from: =drake= on January 31, 2014, 03:11:08 PM
Ok i get your point about items that had already 99% spoil rate (after the 2.5x) and had no boosts from this extra 2x but instead they was getting it from the extra 3x on max quantity.
This thing is "unfair" for high level players as they usually reach the 99% without the extra 1.5/2.5x. (current system favors low level because of the caplimit of 99%)
I'm preparing an update about that today (will go up tomorrow morning) that should close the spoil case once and for all:
IF an item, after the extra 1.5x or 2x, goes OVER 99%, the extra % gets converted in max quantity.
So, example of Crafted Leather (is extra 2x item):
a) if mob spoils it with 5%, it becomes 10%
b) if mob spoil it 80%, it becomes 160%. So translates to 99% spoil rate and extra 61% that gets converted in +1 max quantity (+1 max quantity for each 50% accumulated).
After this fix i see no other stuffs related to dynamic rate of spoil to touch.
Tarantula at start had NO increased mats quantity but the rate was fixed 3x (of first day) and became 6x on 3rd day.
already right now the spoil rate is basically higher than at begin.
And about cryes about spoil, please see forum posts on dragon board where there is a neverending cry (now they complain spoil is too high, for years they complained was too low (tarantula have 10 days!!))
In this moment tarantula have even HIGHER spoil than actual dragon... (dragon is fixed 4x spoil)
+
Since the chance is 99%, extra quantity should be added by 49%.
Quote from: Painkiler on January 31, 2014, 03:28:01 PM
Since the chance is 99%, extra quantity should be added by 49%.
I made it even better, it counts every single 1% and is added to the max quantity (of course, by math, 1% on rate means a 2% or max quantity)
so, for example:
Metallic Fiber is a EXTRA 2x item rate. After the dynamic spoil (2.5x) the result would be (not mob specified):
Quantity: 1-5
Chances: 87%
With the extra 2x the chances from 87% goes to over 99% and are caplimited (99%)
So here the solution:
[metallic_fiber] max 5 to 13, chances from 87.0 to 99 (overflow: 2.5)
87*2=174% (caplimit 99%)
overflow is +75%. In max quantity values it means a 75*2=+150%
Overflow ratio is 2.5 (1=+0%, 2.5=+150%)
Max quantity changes to 5*2.5=13 (that is +150% or, simply, 250% of original value (or 2.5x))
That's good for mobs that have 1-xx in default, but what's about 1x by default?
Quote from: Painkiler on January 31, 2014, 03:39:05 PM
That's good for mobs that have 1-xx in default, but what's about 1x by default?
Is the same.
[reinforcing_agent] max 1 to 2, chances from 71.5633 to 99 (overflow: 1.882532)
[stem] max 1 to 2, chances from 76.6967 to 99 (overflow: 2.087868)
[mithril_ore] max 1 to 2, chances from 62.0351 to 99 (overflow: 1.501404)
[cord] max 1 to 3, chances from 92.6136 to 99 (overflow: 2.724544)
mob with default x1 mats with basic(x1) chance of ~60% (http://gracia.l2portal.com/gracia/Npc.aspx?ID=21395 for example), how rates will look there?
Quote from: Painkiler on January 31, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
mob with default x1 mats with basic(x1) chance of ~60% (http://gracia.l2portal.com/gracia/Npc.aspx?ID=21395 for example), how rates will look there?
Enchant Scroll: 1 item, 1.832% (official is 0.7328%)
Crafted Leather: 1-2 item, 99% (official is 64.2786% and is overflowed, thats why becomes 1-2)
Mold Glue: 1-1 item, 99% (official is 61.0647% and isoverflowed, but not enough to make it switch to 1-2 (if the item was 1-2 to begin with, it would have switched to 1-3 without problems))
why not 61% x2,5= 150% x2 = 300%? So it will be 1-4 in the end.
Quote from: Painkiler on January 31, 2014, 04:23:07 PM
why not 61% x2,5= 150% x2 = 300%? So it will be 1-4 in the end.
With the reboot right now i switched already the order in the way they are calculated (before it was calculated BEFORE the dynamic rate, now is correctly calculated AFTER)
the result is:
[scrl_of_ench_am_s];1;1;1.832%
[crafted_leather];1;3;99%
[mold_glue];1;3;99%
and makes more sense.
No, the initial dynamic rate curve does not have overflow calculation and makes no sense to have it at all because when for example server was 6x the spoil was not going in overflow-to-quantity.
If i would apply overflow calculation on the dynamic curve, then as conseguently i would also disable the mats boost as they would sum up excessively (and too high spoil = disaster for market)
That's fine too, add these values to drop database if u can.
Monster Finder updated to the new "spoil overflow system".
examples:
here it overflows so the chances are caplimited to 99% and quantity is raised:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?from_level=0&id=21395&server_id=1
here it does not overflows so the chances is raised but not the quantity:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=22051&server_id=1&from_level=0
System for dynamic spoil rate i guess is definitely completed now and no more in "sort of beta".
I'm lost now. I dodnt read last pages and im bad at math.
Could someone summarize what is going on? Or what happend? (if anything) :) Thx
edit: drake just posted it. Got it.
Quote from: Vendettacz on January 31, 2014, 05:09:25 PM
I'm lost now. I dodnt read last pages and im bad at math.
Could someone summarize what is going on? Or what happend? (if anything) :) Thx
edit: drake just posted it. Got it.
To summarize:
The Beginning:
Initially we had "just" dynamic rate curve and generic craft mats had 3x max quantity
The Complain:
Some people complained that, by unluck, item had a bad feeling of spoiling because ok you was getting 1-3 quantity (instead of 1) but chances was 3% so over 100 mobs usually 97 was empty. Bad Feeling and ragequit.
The First Solution:
Change the boost from quantity to a boost to chances (using correct math approach so the conversion rate remains same (1% rate = 2% max quantity))
This way, over 100 mobs, instead of have 3 lucky mobs that can give you 1-3, you have 6-7 mobs that each of them gives 1.
Is a bit better feeling as you feel more rewarded (less empty mobs).
The Problem (second complain):
The spoil is caplimited to 99% chances, so items that was already at 99% (or near that value) had NO benefits from the change of "quantity-to-chances".
The First Solution was basically giving more reward toward mid-low level monsters and basically zero boost rewards to high level monsters.
The Second and Final Solution (right now):
When adding the extra chance, the value that goes over 99% is considered Overflow.
The Overflow is then recalculated and feeded back the the max quantity (same ratio 1% chance = 2% max quantity)
The system, this way, seems pretty solid and fair for all levels and i dont see further development required over it (finally i can focus on other stuffs)
examples spoil of Crafted Leather:
here it overflows (with the boost it was going over 99%) so the chances are caplimited to 99% and quantity is raised accordly:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?from_level=0&id=21395&server_id=1
here it does not overflows (under 99%) so the chances is raised but not the quantity:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=22051&server_id=1&from_level=0
The values you see on Monster Finder are already final and fully calculated.
(Spoil skill level may reduce the % of spoiling from the enlisted values)
Quote from: =drake= on January 31, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
To summarize:
The Beginning:
Initially we had "just" dynamic rate curve and generic craft mats had 3x max quantity
The Complain:
Some people complained that, by unluck, item had a bad feeling of spoiling because ok you was getting 1-3 quantity (instead of 1) but chances was 3% so over 100 mobs usually 97 was empty. Bad Feeling and ragequit.
The First Solution:
Change the boost from quantity to a boost to chances (using correct math approach so the conversion rate remains same (1% rate = 2% max quantity))
This way, over 100 mobs, instead of have 3 lucky mobs that can give you 1-3, you have 6-7 mobs that each of them gives 1.
Is a bit better feeling as you feel more rewarded (less empty mobs).
The Problem (second complain):
The spoil is caplimited to 99% chances, so items that was already at 99% (or near that value) had NO benefits from the change of "quantity-to-chances".
The First Solution was basically giving more reward toward mid-low level monsters and basically zero boost rewards to high level monsters.
The Second and Final Solution (right now):
When adding the extra chance, the value that goes over 99% is considered Overflow.
The Overflow is then recalculated and feeded back the the max quantity (same ratio 1% chance = 2% max quantity)
The system, this way, seems pretty solid and fair for all levels and i dont see further development required over it (finally i can focus on other stuffs)
examples spoil of Crafted Leather:
here it overflows (with the boost it was going over 99%) so the chances are caplimited to 99% and quantity is raised accordly:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?from_level=0&id=21395&server_id=1
here it does not overflows (under 99%) so the chances is raised but not the quantity:
http://www.dragon-network.net/drop/npcinfo.php?id=22051&server_id=1&from_level=0
The values you see on Monster Finder are already final and fully calculated.
(Spoil skill level may reduce the % of spoiling from the enlisted values)
For example , you need only:
- 234 Stone of Purity
2242 Varnish
7790 Animal Bone
80 Mold Lubricant
80 Mold Hardener
40 Mold Glue
15480 Thread
77 Enria
231 Suede
1694 Mithril Ore
9240 Iron Ore
154 Oriharukon Ore
1386 Coal
1386 Charcoal
to craft Arcana Mace (60%).
It's just PvE server? With that spoil system everyone should spoil 3-6 months (?) before start PvP?
Quote from: Oo on January 31, 2014, 05:46:07 PM
For example , you need only:
- 234 Stone of Purity
2242 Varnish
7790 Animal Bone
80 Mold Lubricant
80 Mold Hardener
40 Mold Glue
15480 Thread
77 Enria
231 Suede
1694 Mithril Ore
9240 Iron Ore
154 Oriharukon Ore
1386 Coal
1386 Charcoal
to craft Arcana Mace (60%).
It's just PvE server? With that spoil system everyone should spoil 3-6 months (?) before start PvP?
I already have 90% of those items, remember that u can spoil the better grade materias instead of spoiling all the basic stuff
Quote from: vaiper on January 31, 2014, 05:48:39 PM
I already have 90% of those items, remember that u can spoil the better grade materias instead of spoiling all the basic stuff
Are you solo player?
Quote from: Oo on January 31, 2014, 05:46:07 PM
For example , you need only:
- 234 Stone of Purity
2242 Varnish
7790 Animal Bone
80 Mold Lubricant
80 Mold Hardener
40 Mold Glue
15480 Thread
77 Enria
231 Suede
1694 Mithril Ore
9240 Iron Ore
154 Oriharukon Ore
1386 Coal
1386 Charcoal
to craft Arcana Mace (60%).
It's just PvE server? With that spoil system everyone should spoil 3-6 months (?) before start PvP?
Why You wanna w8 with pvp to S grade ? In old times we pvp-ed in d/c/b and was fuking great.
Now ppl need full S and boss jevelery to even start flag, wtf is going on ?
people will never be happy.
Dont want to spoil mats? Buy it !
I lvled from 58 to 70 killing fking Pilgrim of Splendor, etc, and I got ZERO DC gloves rcp.
So, I can cry at forum. But it wont solve anything. So i'll just buy it :)
Quote from: Oo on January 31, 2014, 05:46:07 PM
For example , you need only:
- 234 Stone of Purity
2242 Varnish
7790 Animal Bone
80 Mold Lubricant
80 Mold Hardener
40 Mold Glue
15480 Thread
77 Enria
231 Suede
1694 Mithril Ore
9240 Iron Ore
154 Oriharukon Ore
1386 Coal
1386 Charcoal
to craft Arcana Mace (60%).
It's just PvE server? With that spoil system everyone should spoil 3-6 months (?) before start PvP?
I think you missed a big point, please re-read it.
Now over same time you get more constant mats at low-mid levels even if you are unlucky but on high levels (where chances are already high) you get more quantity correctly translated.
So the current system is rewarding at all levels. Hard to complain about it (except if you want a 5000x server, but even then... it would fail because 5000x on spoil means nothing without this new overflow system. You would have 5000% chances to drop ONE :D)
Quote from: lNecropsy on January 31, 2014, 05:53:39 PM
I lvled from 58 to 70 killing fking Pilgrim of Splendor, etc, and I got ZERO DC gloves rcp.
So, I can cry at forum. But it wont solve anything. So i'll just buy it :)
There is a big reason why recipes dont get additional boosts (beside the normal dynamic spoil rate): CRAFTING SHOPS
If recipes was appearing everywhere there would be no reason for craft shops.
Quote from: =drake= on January 31, 2014, 05:57:32 PM
There is a big reason why recipes dont get additional boosts (beside the normal dynamic spoil rate): CRAFTING SHOPS
If recipes was appearing everywhere there would be no reason for craft shops.
yes, for sure i prefer using craft shops then get twice the same recipe.
But DC gloves rcp is not spoilable. Its only by normal drop, and you need 1 recipe to use it.
Btw, lineage is very crazy. If you get a recipe of cake IRL, and you make a Cake, you wont put your recipe inside the cake to 'craft' it ::) ::) ::) ::) hahaha
Quote from: lNecropsy on January 31, 2014, 06:29:55 PM
Btw, lineage is very crazy. If you get a recipe of cake IRL, and you make a Cake, you wont put your recipe inside the cake to 'craft' it ::) ::) ::) ::) hahaha
Thats why they dont eat many cakes in korea ;D
tell me real % for this recipe? (dc boots) 2h spoil, spoiler lvl 67 like mob. % 13% ? no way
(http://imageshack.com/a/img35/9141/b2lz.png)
Quote from: Kaafrea on January 31, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
tell me real % for this recipe? (dc boots) 2h spoil, spoiler lvl 67 like mob. % 13% ? no way
(http://imageshack.com/a/img35/9141/b2lz.png)
I got 2 in 25 min.
U must be using wrong food or its the wrong type of mob
http://lineage.pmfun.com/list/quest-more/beast-farm-spoil enjoy.
Quote from: Vendettacz on January 31, 2014, 05:09:25 PM
I'm lost now. I dodnt read last pages and im bad at math.
Could someone summarize what is going on? Or what happend? (if anything) :) Thx
edit: drake just posted it. Got it.
i tell in 1 sentence: we are foked becose someone dont realize how real look spoil...
Quote from: lasombra on January 31, 2014, 05:53:23 PM
Why You wanna w8 with pvp to S grade ? In old times we pvp-ed in d/c/b and was fuking great.
Now ppl need full S and boss jevelery to even start flag, wtf is going on ?
u dont get his point. I write easier: u will pvp with homokulus for next 3 years:P
Quote from: Cromatorus on January 31, 2014, 10:20:25 PM
i tell in 1 sentence: we are foked becose someone dont realize how real look spoil...
indeed!
2 days ago I could spoil 1 sop and 2-3 cbp from 1 mob. Today if im lucky I get 1 cbp, because lots of mobs are empty.... So why the hell you lowered spoil rate. You really think I will spoil every 20th mob to get 1 sop? oO
Quote from: Vendettacz on January 31, 2014, 09:19:38 PM
http://lineage.pmfun.com/list/quest-more/beast-farm-spoil enjoy.
Thanks, this is really helpfull.
Thank you Drake for tweaking the spoil system. Spoiling Mats feels alot better now :D.
Keep it up.
Quote from: pawelox01 on February 01, 2014, 01:15:27 AM
2 days ago I could spoil 1 sop and 2-3 cbp from 1 mob. Today if im lucky I get 1 cbp, because lots of mobs are empty.... So why the hell you lowered spoil rate. You really think I will spoil every 20th mob to get 1 sop? oO
+1..
UPDATE: spoil rate x3 fixed i seeWrong some mobs got x3 some still x1 -.-
TO FIX: spoiling mobs on this same lvl
Quote from: Cromatorus on February 01, 2014, 09:22:02 AM
+1..
UPDATE: spoil rate x3 fixed i see
Wrong some mobs got x3 some still x1 -.-
TO FIX: spoiling mobs on this same lvl
Wrong, the rates are:
a) CHANCES: 7x to 2.5x (lv1 to lv80) on everything
b) additional 1.5x chances (any level) for equip/weapon parts
c) additional 2.5x chances (any level) for all crafting materials that are not equip/weapon parts
d) in case option B/C go in overflow (means chance over 99%), the overflow is translated in extra QUANTITY
So, there is no 1x rate on any spoilable item.
At level 80 the chances range goes from 2.5x to 5x with possible overflow (higher amount)
Quote from: =drake= on February 01, 2014, 06:15:59 PM
Wrong, the rates are:
a) CHANCES: 7x to 2.5x (lv1 to lv80) on everything
b) additional 1.5x chances (any level) for equip/weapon parts
c) additional 2.5x chances (any level) for all crafting materials that are not equip/weapon parts
d) in case option B/C go in overflow (means chance over 99%), the overflow is translated in extra QUANTITY
So, there is no 1x rate on any spoilable item.
At level 80 the chances range goes from 2.5x to 5x with possible overflow (higher amount)
then why mobs who give few days ago 1-3 cpb gives now max 1
and why other mobs give 1-3 varnish. mine lvl is 20 and them 26-30
Its 100% not fould lvl of spoil. 2nd spoil on this mobs is 100% ( artur said that spoil 100% dont exist and i can proof that he again is wrong)
Truth is that if someone wanna craft some B grade weapon or set is almost impossible becose of some mats. Should be max 5-6 days to spoil all from start. Now its somthing about month or more..
And the worst thing. People start use again bots becose now spoil is foked. And ask track zero: still here bots working very good and he know that.
Quote from: Cromatorus on February 01, 2014, 07:38:07 PM
then why mobs who give few days ago 1-3 cpb gives now max 1
and why other mobs give 1-3 varnish. mine lvl is 20 and them 26-30
Its 100% not fould lvl of spoil. 2nd spoil on this mobs is 100% ( artur said that spoil 100% dont exist and i can proof that he again is wrong)
Truth is that if someone wanna craft some B grade weapon or set is almost impossible becose of some mats. Should be max 5-6 days to spoil all from start. Now its somthing about month or more..
And the worst thing. People start use again bots becose now spoil is foked. And ask track zero: still here bots working very good and he know that.
It will be fixed idea about bots, however they are most of them perma banned already. I dont see how boting helps you if you get perma ban on something you "farmed".
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on February 01, 2014, 08:12:35 PM
It will be fixed idea about bots, however they are most of them perma banned already. I dont see how boting helps you if you get perma ban on something you "farmed".
May i ask if u r banning only the bots or also the "main" account aswell?
Quote from: Misato on February 01, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
May i ask if u r banning only the bots or also the "main" account aswell?
Well if people loosing 5-6-9 chars in 1 shoot i guess its quite damaging , however their hwid is under watch, if they keep repeating same thing all over , i will update rules to main.
Quote from: Cromatorus on February 01, 2014, 07:38:07 PM
then why mobs who give few days ago 1-3 cpb gives now max 1
and why other mobs give 1-3 varnish. mine lvl is 20 and them 26-30
If a mob was giving 1-3 (by old initial system, that means was official 1-1) and now gives only 1-1 this means we translated the value from quantity to chances.
Basically instead of have 1 mob every 3 that gives you 1-3 varnish, now each mob gives you always (99%) 1 varnish.
Is a bit more rewarding and less luck based.
But on the long run (100 mobs?) you basically get the same amount as before.
Quote from: =drake= on February 01, 2014, 10:49:49 PM
If a mob was giving 1-3 (by old initial system, that means was official 1-1) and now gives only 1-1 this means we translated the value from quantity to chances.
Basically instead of have 1 mob every 3 that gives you 1-3 varnish, now each mob gives you always (99%) 1 varnish.
Is a bit more rewarding and less luck based.
But on the long run (100 mobs?) you basically get the same amount as before.
bro answer me this ..
on the new monster list one mob says 13% chance to spoil EWC, other 23%
im 1 lvl higher and cant get even 1 .
level of the spoil skill have much more importance than your level.
the % that you see there are in optimal conditions:
a) skill if same level of monster
AND
b) you of same level of monster
having an higher level of the skill doesnt increase the %. Thats the best % already.
having lower level of the skill does instead reduce the % up to 0%.
Quote from: 8kjupx3u on February 02, 2014, 05:13:00 AM
bro answer me this ..
on the new monster list one mob says 13% chance to spoil EWC, other 23%
im 1 lvl higher and cant get even 1 .
I think you look on dragon calculator, not on tarantula 8)
Markko i tak tego EWB nie wyspoilujesz :D
Quote from: =^TrackZero^= on February 01, 2014, 08:30:12 PM
Well if people loosing 5-6-9 chars in 1 shoot i guess its quite damaging , however their hwid is under watch, if they keep repeating same thing all over , i will update rules to main.
If someone use bot, account should be banned. Not only 1 char.
I think all players who doesnt bot have the same opinion about it.
Quote from: hebdzik on February 03, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
Markko i tak tego EWB nie wyspoilujesz :D
Szansa 0,3% to wciÄ...ż za maÅ,o na Å,acznie 7h spoilowania :D
Quote from: =drake= on February 01, 2014, 10:49:49 PM
If a mob was giving 1-3 (by old initial system, that means was official 1-1) and now gives only 1-1 this means we translated the value from quantity to chances.
Basically instead of have 1 mob every 3 that gives you 1-3 varnish, now each mob gives you always (99%) 1 varnish.
Is a bit more rewarding and less luck based.
But on the long run (100 mobs?) you basically get the same amount as before.
You are wrong Drake, I see diffrence and its much less at least on mobs 55-57 ;) maybe on higher level it will be better, we will see :) anyway it make me crazy all the time changing something ^^