Stun issue!

[PvtStuka]

good post Weezer.
I was one of those who wroted to check stun.
I have always full buff at siege, with resist shock. And I stay on stun personally always at siege. Like almoust whole our ally. Dunno what is wrong, but for me it looks like stun and agroo have 100% land rate.
Earlier I also get stun, but not such often like now, same with agro.
I know my char is easy to stun, but never was stunned so much like now.

Problem is, how solve it and kept stun usefull. Couse fighters must be able stun mages, but not all the time...
Something is not ok with stun, and it's not connected to vesper light set, I use robe always. And since some time I get stuns much more often.

For me with stun and agro smth is wrong. I think we need some compromise, to kept it usefull but not so much like it's now.

ps. Track. How it is ? Why all debuffs / mass skills work on ally ? It's like it should be ? or it's bugged ? It's rly pain in ass, ppl can't use proper their chars, couse they kill / debuff / stun ally mates.

Probably your first post in a while which I'm agree with.

[Crazzyyhuhuh]

good post Weezer.
I was one of those who wroted to check stun.
I have always full buff at siege, with resist shock. And I stay on stun personally always at siege. Like almoust whole our ally. Dunno what is wrong, but for me it looks like stun and agroo have 100% land rate.
Earlier I also get stun, but not such often like now, same with agro.
I know my char is easy to stun, but never was stunned so much like now.

Problem is, how solve it and kept stun usefull. Couse fighters must be able stun mages, but not all the time...
Something is not ok with stun, and it's not connected to vesper light set, I use robe always. And since some time I get stuns much more often.

For me with stun and agro smth is wrong. I think we need some compromise, to kept it usefull but not so much like it's now.

ps. Track. How it is ? Why all debuffs / mass skills work on ally ? It's like it should be ? or it's bugged ? It's rly pain in ass, ppl can't use proper their chars, couse they kill / debuff / stun ally mates.

+1

[Kastro]

Some info about stun and also related to Rune siege:

- All stun skills r landing more, as u told probably about Vesper Sets, cause it's almost impossible that all stun skills got boosted, seens more reasonable that Vesper was nerfed.

- Resist Skills against Stuns rly helps, for example on Giran Siege 3 weeks ago i was getting stunned all the time by Archers or taking back my WL skills cause of reflect from Tanks, on last Rune Siege i used a biff setup of buffs + toggle skills and didn't get too many stuns (i was stunned sometimes, but not as Giran)

- FTP and other enemies also had stunners on Rune siege, like Kishin and Yoshimo, but the main problem is that if they use their skills near other clans (even those in ally) they will be stunned too. In 1 of those rushes i was in middle of the enemies using WL stuns and Kishin was near me using skills too, so if they wasn't being stunned by me they was being stunned by Kishin, i saw some other rushes too. This also happens with debuffs and some other skills.

For sure stun issues must be CHECKED, but before nerfing something remember that in past we had mages that was impossible to get stunned, so stun skills was almost useless, and the most funny i can understand that i wont stun FIGHTERS so easily, but not stun MAGES is rly lol, come on mages have low CON and should be easier to stun mages than fighters, even with resist shock buff on mage and fighter we must be able to stun mages a lot more than a fighter.

as i say many time`s  but CON value not count to much  in this stun ressit  i have give many examplse   that with  max con on char with tallisman  for  stun ressist    cant avoide  1 damn stun each stun mean -2k hp   if can somone explan me how char who dont have stun {ofc have bluff what  is not SHOCK attack  is mental attack  wich nevar lend}  have  no chance  to survive nowhere   dislike to play something where i have stars over my head   full match and cant evan move awey  from openent ,  if long way bihand  was skills to play some chars  now is advanteg of 1 and allways 1 skills when each update showing new farmer char oly or where evar ...

++ 1 more think  can somone expland  how  is posoble critical hit to be lower dmg   then  notmal hit  example ... normal hit 100  critical hit  80 dmg  heppening on  tanks mostly   what`s mean the passiv tank  skills reduce the  DEX  from  the openent the death wisper buff  pof/pow  wich each incrase  critical power .... spicking general  mostly  for classes who don have passiv  critical power more then lvl 2 free to test  but sims many thinks need to be duble check it to have normal play   wich will give to ppl plasure to play not loging in and  get angry all time for such  a thinks like this  afther all this is game to have fun not to get angry  

p.s : track want it my answer  there u go  but such ur self when u have free time  make normal char gear it TOP and call a anykinde of oopnent  wich  have stun  and tell him to spam stun { wich have no reuse  and tell me how many stars will pass over ur head during the test} cheers

[Crazzyyhuhuh]

as i say many time`s  but CON value not count to much  in this stun ressit  i have give many examplse   that with  max con on char with tallisman  for  stun ressist    cant avoide  1 damn stun each stun mean -2k hp   if can somone explan me how char who dont have stun {ofc have bluff what  is not SHOCK attack  is mental attack  wich nevar lend}  have  no chance  to survive nowhere   dislike to play something where i have stars over my head   full match and cant evan move awey  from openent ,  if long way bihand  was skills to play some chars  now is advanteg of 1 and allways 1 skills when each update showing new farmer char oly or where evar ...

++ 1 more think  can somone expland  how  is posoble critical hit to be lower dmg   then  notmal hit  example ... normal hit 100  critical hit  80 dmg  heppening on  tanks mostly   what`s mean the passiv tank  skills reduce the  DEX  from  the openent the death wisper buff  pof/pow  wich each incrase  critical power .... spicking general  mostly  for classes who don have passiv  critical power more then lvl 2 free to test  but sims many thinks need to be duble check it to have normal play   wich will give to ppl plasure to play not loging in and  get angry all time for such  a thinks like this  afther all this is game to have fun not to get angry  

p.s : track want it my answer  there u go  but such ur self when u have free time  make normal char gear it TOP and call a anykinde of oopnent  wich  have stun  and tell him to spam stun { wich have no reuse  and tell me how many stars will pass over ur head during the test} cheers

Kick Drakes ass and all will be fine, i agree with this noob too im lazy to write couse someone will say me i QQ 24/7

[lucifsg]

@track

Ye as u said problem is with vespers . Seems like they lost their bonus ressist vs stun. But thats not the only problem. All stuns ignore antharas (dunno why maybe it gives 0 bonus ? ) proof is u get 100% stun on any set having just an antharas. Even if stun bonus on vespers is added again stun should be recoded. Buff ressist , same shit. Its been ignored. Only thing that is not ignored is touch of life thats why hardstyle or any other cant stun anyone beeing on tol . So basically rest of us who dont have tol all we had to ressist stun was vesper sets, which for some reason suddenly lost its bonus.

[Weezer]

Today i made some tests with iPedoBear/Zaled (BP/PA), i was on iStun (PA/WL).

I don't know if Track or Drake already made something on Stun or probably Vesper Sets, but using WL stuns while he had DNET Vesper Robe + Resist Shock (+10) + Fortitude, i almost didnt landed stuns on him.

When he turned off Fortitude it becomes a bit better, but still couldn't stun him all the time. When he was just with set i could stun him a bit more, let's say 50% (what imo none would complain about that, unless WL's).

When he had Robe and buffs and turned on Phisical Mirror i was getting stunned by my skills (i was without buffs to prevent stun), when i used Resist Shock + Fortitude i wasn't getting stunned by reflect of by his skill (Stun Shield).

Most funny, when he had Vesper Heavy on his char i was able to stun him a lot more than when he was using Robe Set.

Imo, and as i said on a post before, buffs makes a lot difference against Stuns.

I made some tests before with a char using DNET Dyna and on DNET Dyna it landed a lot more than Vesper Robe, but tbh it should be like that. I didn't made screens about that to proove here what i said, but u can ask iPedoBear or be free to make some tests too.

good post Weezer.
I was one of those who wroted to check stun.
I have always full buff at siege, with resist shock. And I stay on stun personally always at siege. Like almoust whole our ally. Dunno what is wrong, but for me it looks like stun and agroo have 100% land rate.
Earlier I also get stun, but not such often like now, same with agro.
I know my char is easy to stun, but never was stunned so much like now.
Problem is, how solve it and kept stun usefull. Couse fighters must be able stun mages, but not all the time...
Something is not ok with stun, and it's not connected to vesper light set, I use robe always. And since some time I get stuns much more often.
For me with stun and agro smth is wrong. I think we need some compromise, to kept it usefull but not so much like it's now.
ps. Track. How it is ? Why all debuffs / mass skills work on ally ? It's like it should be ? or it's bugged ? It's rly pain in ass, ppl can't use proper their chars, couse they kill / debuff / stun ally mates.

About buffs i think PedoBear can tell u how was our test today, and at least my conclusion was that buffs helped him a lot to prevent stuns.

Also there r few more things that we must consider about stun skills:

CON: - affects shock (stun) resistance
Source: http://lineage.pmfun.com/list/skill

Some fighters have -CON on dyes and some mages don't add +CON dyes, -CON will make less stun resistance / +CON will make more stun resistance.

On sieges there's a long time we don't have a WL playing as stunner, we all know Kishin is oly farmer and Yoshimo is going as solo killing as dagger, using stuns to make a way to survive against a zerg. But it's also a problem cause WL stuns can land on people of ur ally (same like debuffs), and we all know it's working like this since a long time.

I'm not worried about checking stuns, what i'm worried is to make it useless like it was before, when GF started stuns was USELESS against mages, as i told before i can understand that stun wont land in a FIGHTER (higher con + passives + buffs), but not land on MAGES? It must land, or gonna be an useless skill, anyway i think the problem isn't the skill but the resist on Vesper, but pls it should consider not to boost Vesper too much and make stun useless.

Btw about mass debuffs or stuns landing on ally we would have the same problem if we have 2 active clans on ally, and we all had this problems when FTP were 3 clans and ur enemies was in allies with 2 or more active clans, now CB is all in 1 clan, and they can use those skills without problems cause there's no allymates to debuff or stun. Imo there's no problem on that, it's just a diff organization that makes a clan more effective than an ally, u also can solve this problem the same way we did.

Ok, i write too much

[lucifsg]

For sure stun issues must be CHECKED, but before nerfing something remember that in past we had mages that was impossible to get stunned, so stun skills was almost useless, and the most funny i can understand that i wont stun FIGHTERS so easily, but not stun MAGES is rly lol, come on mages have low CON and should be easier to stun mages than fighters, even with resist shock buff on mage and fighter we must be able to stun mages a lot more than a fighter.

Let me get this str8 , mages should be stuned cause u reroled ? All should be stuned with a comon rate but i dont see this in ur post. All i see is mages should be stuned cause they dont have con. So ? What about toggle skills , antharas , stun ressist buffs ? So in ur opinion 4 con more or less makes the diff ?

[lucifsg]

as i say many time`s  but CON value not count to much  in this stun ressit  i have give many examplse   that with  max con on char with tallisman  for  stun ressist    cant avoide  1 damn stun each stun mean -2k hp   if can somone explan me how char who dont have stun {ofc have bluff what  is not SHOCK attack  is mental attack  wich nevar lend}  have  no chance  to survive nowhere   dislike to play something where i have stars over my head   full match and cant evan move awey  from openent ,  if long way bihand  was skills to play some chars  now is advanteg of 1 and allways 1 skills when each update showing new farmer char oly or where evar ...

++ 1 more think  can somone expland  how  is posoble critical hit to be lower dmg   then  notmal hit  example ... normal hit 100  critical hit  80 dmg  heppening on  tanks mostly   what`s mean the passiv tank  skills reduce the  DEX  from  the openent the death wisper buff  pof/pow  wich each incrase  critical power .... spicking general  mostly  for classes who don have passiv  critical power more then lvl 2 free to test  but sims many thinks need to be duble check it to have normal play   wich will give to ppl plasure to play not loging in and  get angry all time for such  a thinks like this  afther all this is game to have fun not to get angry  

p.s : track want it my answer  there u go  but such ur self when u have free time  make normal char gear it TOP and call a anykinde of oopnent  wich  have stun  and tell him to spam stun { wich have no reuse  and tell me how many stars will pass over ur head during the test} cheers

+1

[Weezer]

Let me get this str8 , mages should be stuned cause u reroled ? All should be stuned with a comon rate but i dont see this in ur post. All i see is mages should be stuned cause they dont have con. So ? What about toggle skills , antharas , stun ressist buffs ? So in ur opinion 4 con more or less makes the diff ?

No the point is why before was impossible to stun a mage and why it was possible to stun a fighter? Both should be stunned, ofc in a reasonable rate, but both should be able to stun and before was rly difficult (sometimes impossible) to stun a mage.

Not all have toggle skills to prevent stun, and Antharas it gives protection and chance to stun, so if u have antharas and ur attacker have antharas is almost the same bonus if both dont have it. And even +1 makes some diff in a char.

[lucifsg]

No the point is why before was impossible to stun a mage and why it was possible to stun a fighter? Both should be stunned, ofc in a reasonable rate, but both should be able to stun and before was rly difficult (sometimes impossible) to stun a mage.

Not all have toggle skills to prevent stun, and Antharas it gives protection and chance to stun, so if u have antharas and ur attacker have antharas is almost the same bonus if both dont have it. And even +1 makes some diff in a char.

Sorry but when exactly it was impossible for mages to get stunned ? That never happened.
Maybe u wanna say that archers stuns was way too weak , i ll agree to that but both on fighters or mages, not just mages or smth ...

[Di]

Sorry but when exactly it was impossible for mages to get stunned ? That never happened.
Maybe u wanna say that archers stuns was way too weak , i ll agree to that but both on fighters or mages, not just mages or smth ...

+1

[Tukan]

as i say many time`s  but CON value not count to much  in this stun ressit  i have give many examplse   that with  max con on char with tallisman  for  stun ressist    cant avoide  1 damn stun each stun mean -2k hp   if can somone explan me how char who dont have stun {ofc have bluff what  is not SHOCK attack  is mental attack  wich nevar lend}  have  no chance  to survive nowhere   dislike to play something where i have stars over my head   full match and cant evan move awey  from openent ,  if long way bihand  was skills to play some chars  now is advanteg of 1 and allways 1 skills when each update showing new farmer char oly or where evar ...

++ 1 more think  can somone expland  how  is posoble critical hit to be lower dmg   then  notmal hit  example ... normal hit 100  critical hit  80 dmg  heppening on  tanks mostly   what`s mean the passiv tank  skills reduce the  DEX  from  the openent the death wisper buff  pof/pow  wich each incrase  critical power .... spicking general  mostly  for classes who don have passiv  critical power more then lvl 2 free to test  but sims many thinks need to be duble check it to have normal play   wich will give to ppl plasure to play not loging in and  get angry all time for such  a thinks like this  afther all this is game to have fun not to get angry  

p.s : track want it my answer  there u go  but such ur self when u have free time  make normal char gear it TOP and call a anykinde of oopnent  wich  have stun  and tell him to spam stun { wich have no reuse  and tell me how many stars will pass over ur head during the test} cheers

I like long posts which usually contains fundamental mistakes.
For saying CON doesn't count much - you can't be sure since you have never seen a debuff formula, have you? On the contrary I think it really is a matter or let's just say it SHOULD be a matter.
Let me give you an example: stun formula should contain a CON Modifier value which hasn't been touched since C4 for sure. I"ll give 31 CON to a mage which means your value will be 1,10. Take an orc as an opponent with 50 CON then this value will be 1,94.
1,94/1,10=? the difference is great, 76% - if you think 76% more protective against something is not much then I'd call it a blatant mistake. (Data is from official)

Bluff. Bluff is a wrong example to mention it here. Even though Bluff is listed among stuns, DN Wiki says that it has no (ok? zero) protection against this skill.  It might have been changed since then or the information can be outdated, but this is DN.

Tanks issues I don't wanna explain to you, it's off-topic Anyway I don't know how DEX comes into the picture while DEX has effect on critical rate, not dmg. Critical dmg can only be increased by base stats since Goddess of Destruction ONLY! Sorry if I misunderstood you about DEX though.


I still would like to see debuff land rate formulas!!! I don't understand why such information can't be revealed. If Drake, Devs or whoever can nerf something, it means something CAN BE changed. So a formula should exist as well.

Every tests should be done with +0 skills first and those facts should determine the outcome...If something will be OP on +30 then let it be.