Tank "nerfs"

[Chicks]

I tried tanking a bit so far, with and without tatoo... frankly? Just one healer overhealing 1-2 heals and your done for, if you're not high lvl with ++ skills. Frankly, it's a little bit retarded atm. Tanks = destro now, and tanks can't do much at anything really. RB? meh, better get an extra destroyer. Train party? Nop. Destroyer/warlord again. Pvp? LoL. Only vs noobs. Exp party? Leecher.
The only use the tank as now is as an initiator to sink the biggest early damage, that he works well at, so he can be used a little bit in an exp party, maybe at high levels.

I tried some stuff, testing on rb without fighters for test purpose and really? As soon as the destroyer lands 3/4 hits, the agro change and it's almsot impossible to make it switch. Same with a healer. We had 2 healers in the team, 1 aggroed at some point, I spammed aggression from half mana to 0 (the rest of my mana was gone from aggression + guard stance) while our second healer healed the first healer (so the healer with the agro would not agro more) and what happend? The second healer got the aggro, not the tank.

I don't know what decent means to you really... I recon it's better then before, but if I have to have a maxed tattoo to do what a tank should be doing? Theres a problem with the system...

A nuker should be able to nuke hard at the cost of mana, thats the job of a nuker, to nuke. They use mana tatoo to nuke more often, to enhance their capacity, not to make them a viable char...

A tank should be able to aggro the ennemy to tank them, at the cost of life and mana, thats the job of a tank, to tank. To tank effectively, we need the tattoo on at all time and even then it's not THAT useful as you need to hit the rb, as using aggression doesn't not trigger an other aggression AFAIK. This means that you have to stop using your aggro spell to attack and maybe have a triggered aggression... It seems counter productive to me. An aggression booster tattoo at the cost of damage/attspeed/wtvr would be a more interesting idea imo, even if it's -50% or more...

The shield wall tattoo is interesting on paper, but I fail to see it's use. To keep the aggro from high dps chars, you need to spam your aggression, you're not allowed to attack much (maybe 1 to 3 auto-attacks between aggressions)

Outside RB, anyway, this tattoo is not very useful if you ask me, as you can allow your mana to go lower (the fight is not constant for 5 mins on  mobs...)

TLDR : Aggression works badly atm and the shield wall tattoo is counterproductive to a normal tank (sword/blunt user).

[lNecropsy]

deflect arrow nerf is so bad, they should decreased just effect from 40% to 25% in light and 20% in robe instead of decreasing casting/atk spd, nobody will do tank sub , cause is pointless Summoner/Nuker or Summoner/Archer incoming!

[Clonage]

The nerf range on bow could be better done... Nerfs on pure tanks for no reason...

[Garn.]

I tried tanking a bit so far, with and without tatoo... frankly? Just one healer overhealing 1-2 heals and your done for, if you're not high lvl with ++ skills. Frankly, it's a little bit retarded atm. Tanks = destro now, and tanks can't do much at anything really. RB? meh, better get an extra destroyer. Train party? Nop. Destroyer/warlord again. Pvp? LoL. Only vs noobs. Exp party? Leecher.
The only use the tank as now is as an initiator to sink the biggest early damage, that he works well at, so he can be used a little bit in an exp party, maybe at high levels.

I tried some stuff, testing on rb without fighters for test purpose and really? As soon as the destroyer lands 3/4 hits, the agro change and it's almsot impossible to make it switch. Same with a healer. We had 2 healers in the team, 1 aggroed at some point, I spammed aggression from half mana to 0 (the rest of my mana was gone from aggression + guard stance) while our second healer healed the first healer (so the healer with the agro would not agro more) and what happend? The second healer got the aggro, not the tank.

I don't know what decent means to you really... I recon it's better then before, but if I have to have a maxed tattoo to do what a tank should be doing? Theres a problem with the system...

A nuker should be able to nuke hard at the cost of mana, thats the job of a nuker, to nuke. They use mana tatoo to nuke more often, to enhance their capacity, not to make them a viable char...

A tank should be able to aggro the ennemy to tank them, at the cost of life and mana, thats the job of a tank, to tank. To tank effectively, we need the tattoo on at all time and even then it's not THAT useful as you need to hit the rb, as using aggression doesn't not trigger an other aggression AFAIK. This means that you have to stop using your aggro spell to attack and maybe have a triggered aggression... It seems counter productive to me. An aggression booster tattoo at the cost of damage/attspeed/wtvr would be a more interesting idea imo, even if it's -50% or more...

The shield wall tattoo is interesting on paper, but I fail to see it's use. To keep the aggro from high dps chars, you need to spam your aggression, you're not allowed to attack much (maybe 1 to 3 auto-attacks between aggressions)

Outside RB, anyway, this tattoo is not very useful if you ask me, as you can allow your mana to go lower (the fight is not constant for 5 mins on  mobs...)

TLDR : Aggression works badly atm and the shield wall tattoo is counterproductive to a normal tank (sword/blunt user).

word.

[=drake=]

On old C4 agro on rbs was working like hell, on IL it became crap. Agro/hate here looks decent comparing to old dnet IL.

and admins are aware about this?

Yes because all aggro skills on our current IL are perfectly aligned with official IL.
The ancient IL we had in 2008 aggro skills was C4
Here we have all aggro skills that are real IL (around 15-25% more effective)

[=drake=]

One additional question... Is skill reduction based on lvl of deflect arrow? Basically does bow range remain the same no matter what da lvl?

Bow range is static, other reductions are progressive.

[Chicks]

My point about the tattoo being useless stays, IL official or not.

[=drake=]

My point about the tattoo being useless stays, IL official or not.

Which level was the tattoo of WALL you tried?
Aggression from it is quite good if the tattoo is leveled up (up to a max leveled aggression skill, without enchant)
The aggression effect triggers (regardless of tattoo level) every hit on 10% chances (so basically around every 10 hits)
The aggression effect have additionally a "target me" effect (from 25% to 40%, based on tattoo level)

- tank m def mastery (Magic Resistance) don't stack with Anti Magic

huge nerf for any mage/tank combos, together with all other nerfs (deflect arrow,ai's, guard stance etc) it makes any mage/tank sub kind of useless, i saw only 1 mage/tank sub and as i know that guy is very disappointed, everyone is making mage/summoner now.

sh/bd and sps/sws also looses very much cuz of this

Wrong, this "nerf" exists on DNET since 2006 and no one ever complained and is a MUST as else ANY mage/fighter combo would have double MDEF than any other mage/mage or fighter/fighter combo.
Dragon have it, Infinity had it, Nightmare had it and so on all the servers that was under DNET.

For your reference, quantity of subclassed characters for each combo:
sagittarius/arcana_lord = 3
spectral_dancer/storm_screamer = 8
phoenix_knight/arcana_lord = 1
titan/doomcryer = 1
mystic_muse/elemental_master = 4
mystic_muse/evas_saint = 8
sword_muse/mystic_muse = 6
sword_muse/evas_saint = 3
shillien_templar/storm_screamer = 1
spectral_dancer/spectral_master = 1
sagittarius/hierophant = 1
elemental_master/evas_saint = 7
archmage/arcana_lord = 2
adventurer/arcana_lord = 1
grand_khavatari/dominator = 2
hell_knight/adventurer = 1
soultaker/cardinal = 2
dominator/doomcryer = 3
spectral_dancer/shillien_saint = 1
dreadnought/sagittarius = 1
arcana_lord/cardinal = 2
spectral_dancer/ghost_sentinel = 1
storm_screamer/spectral_master = 4
evas_templar/sword_muse = 1
titan/grand_khavatari = 2
sword_muse/moonlight_sentinel = 1
arcana_lord/hierophant = 1
archmage/hierophant = 1
adventurer/hierophant = 1
soultaker/hierophant = 1

[Clonage]

Bow range is static, other reductions are progressive.

Can you please make Minimum Range on Bow 600?...

[=drake=]

Can you please make Minimum Range on Bow 600?...

Alternatively we can leave the range untouched but reduce the critical damage or critical rate from bow itself when the skill is in effect.
for sure one or the other nerf are needed.

[Garn.]

just delete tanks class from this game, since u love them so much.

[lNecropsy]

evas_templar/sword_muse = 1    woot?

phoenix_knight/arcana_lord = 1   =O