Tank "nerfs"

[Clonage]

And it's funny how Agro doesnt even land properly in PvP.... I'm Lvl 77 tested vs a Lvl 70 char. Agro doesnt land even 50% of the time... Tanks are useless Period. Time to Reroll.

[Chicks]

Drake... Comon... Obviously I ment UD + reflect arrow, to block the other dude, also using a bow... Who the freak just stands there and take hits from a bow without doing anything? either they run out of range (taking more arrow when they'll come back, not that smart), or fight back with a bow of their own (where your reflect arrow nerf freaks the tank who initially used his UD).

IMO it should react have a raven with the bow mastery, not with the skill reflect arrows by itself. Tanks can pvp with a bow, if used well and if that nerf is removed. Find reflect arrow and bow mastery on a char? Fine, nerf it if you want. I disagree with the idea, but I can see why it's needed for balance sake. Current setup, thought, is not the good way to go...

EDIT : I saw that it's apparently hard to make complicated conditions in IL, but I kept the text unchanged in case someone started to reply/in case it sparked an idea.

It is a direct nerf to the tank class, as you discourage him from using a weapon that he already has no mastery toward... even if it's just for 2 mins...

Lets compare : A tank use UD and switch to his bow to outrange his enemy (lets say a dagger, or a warlord, or any other char other than a tank..., TH lets say for the example). TH switch to bow, to hit the tank while staying far from the tank's more powerful shield + sword combo while he's on UD. Tank use reflect damage to mitigate the damage, since well it's in his skill set for a reason..., gets nerfed for using his bow/reflect damage... While it's true that it nerfs tanks/archers, it also nerf the tank directly, no matter how you put it.

This is, of course, the lesser of the cases, where the other char is not an archer (I excluse mages here because why would you activate reflect arrow vs a mage... Well summoners could use a bow... Hey this give me an idea! HE/WK is strong, lets nerf bow damage when transfer pain is active! AINT THAT NICE? it's the exact same issue here... Minus the fact that the tank has more advantage in having a bow then a WK does...)

Now lets talk, briefly, about tanks vs archers. I'm talking stock classes here, not subbed. Tank use UD because the fukin archer keep moving anyway. Archer move out of range, so tank use reflect arrow while in UD to mitigate the damage. UD is over, reflect arrow is still on... Tanks got a massive disadvantage toward a logical move. While he does tank more damage, he also can't do shit to the archer, and will probably die in the end, in part due to that nerf that he wouldn't have in your IL original servers. The only way for a tank to be able to make pvp's viably is to allow him to use a bow without penalty. Otherwise, tanks cannot pvp alone but only in groups (and even there...). Don't nerf a class just because not many people play them and that they make(or made?) some very strong combos... . If it's not the intention, it surely looks like it.

About agro : fine, everyone other then the tank fail hard since they never use that agro reduction skill. Suits me.

Edit 2 : Freak = fuc k. Thats censor doe...

[=drake=]

What about transform Deflect Arrow in a TOGGLE? (with a cooldown of 2-3 seconds between toggles else too easy to macro it)

[Chicks]

What about transform Deflect Arrow in a TOGGLE? (with a cooldown of 2-3 seconds between toggles else too easy to macro it)

it could still be exploitable I think, just less due to longer cooldown. I prefer the toggle idea than the current setup though. Make it toggle with 30 sec cd at least. That way we need to actually think about it. This would also eliminate the need to stop and rebuff in the middle of a fight. This only helps vs archers or people who move out of range. If they stay and fight, we still got our skill nerfed because a combo is op.

[Chicks]

And it's funny how Agro doesnt even land properly in PvP.... I'm Lvl 77 tested vs a Lvl 70 char. Agro doesnt land even 50% of the time... Tanks are useless Period. Time to Reroll.

Not true. It worked 100% of the time for me (lvl 60) vs a friend (lvl 76). The way it works is lame, as spamming the attack button almost completely remove the aggro attempt (if you use it well, which is kinda lame. Hit attack too fast and it returns to your previous target, dead or alive). It does make the target freeze in place a bit, so it's something. Also, if you use it before he use a skill, your target might get freaked and use his skill on you instead. This is very good vs mages, less vs figthers.

[Calisa]

What about transform Deflect Arrow in a TOGGLE? (with a cooldown of 2-3 seconds between toggles else too easy to macro it)

like it, for sure much better then now

[Clonage]

Not true. It worked 100% of the time for me (lvl 60) vs a friend (lvl 76). The way it works is lame, as spamming the attack button almost completely remove the aggro attempt (if you use it well, which is kinda lame. Hit attack too fast and it returns to your previous target, dead or alive). It does make the target freeze in place a bit, so it's something. Also, if you use it before he use a skill, your target might get freaked and use his skill on you instead. This is very good vs mages, less vs figthers.

So you're calling me a lier, uh? It's not the 1st time i've tested it. We just pvp'ed in barakiel vs mages guess how many i agro'ed 1 or 2 with Aura hate, with Single target agression none. In NO server this ever happened to me(C4, Interlude, hellbound, you name it).
Im wasting my time on a fvcked up char.
Peace cya tomorow.

[Chicks]

So you're calling me a lier, uh? It's not the 1st time i've tested it. We just pvp'ed in barakiel vs mages guess how many i agro'ed 1 or 2 with Aura hate, with Single target agression none. In NO server this ever happened to me(C4, Interlude, hellbound, you name it).
Im wasting my time on a fvcked up char.
Peace cya tomorow.

you said it worked badly, so you might just not know how the spell work. The premise of a lie is to know the truth, but not saying it. I'm saying you're unlucky at best, or you miss interpreted how agro works, thus the rest of my post.

[Clonage]

you said it worked badly, so you might just not know how the spell work. The premise of a lie is to know the truth, but not saying it. I'm saying you're unlucky at best, or you miss interpreted how agro works, thus the rest of my post.

Ill post some videos tomorow from L2off Interlude on Erica Server.

[=drake=]

Drake... Comon... Obviously I ment UD + reflect arrow, to block the other dude, also using a bow... Who the freak just stands there and take hits from a bow without doing anything? either they run out of range (taking more arrow when they'll come back, not that smart), or fight back with a bow of their own (where your reflect arrow nerf freaks the tank who initially used his UD).

Against an archer the choice of UD itself aint really the best as, by CLEAN tank vs CLEAN archer he would still have higher range than you and he would just stand outside our your danger area and shot you down (slowly) from his 1500 range.

You want comparison of subclassed chars?
Tank/Dagger vs Archer/PP, same... Archer will outshot you from his range even without the nerf.
In fact anything/tank (that is not archer/tank) will be outranged by any archer/anything (included archer/tank).
So by default UD is not the good choice VS a ranger (except if the ranger is dumb or you have some territory advantage that forces him to enter in your danger zone before being able to attack. But this second condition is really RARE in L2)

What if you dont use UD and just DeflectArrow?
Perfect. You just need to get in the short range and when he is under 60 you can use all your melee skills and when he gets over 60 (but under 450) you can switch fast your weapon and use your bow too while he deals half the damage with his bow (that he mastered)
And if you are a Archer/Tank? Well. your range is even higher than that so THEN you can do the UD trick and go in "turret mode" (without the DeflectArrow) and have his same range but with the extreme advantage that he deals to you 1/3 of the damage you deal to him (except if he is also in UD)
Archers are already dealing much less damage as you are in UD, when UD worns off try rush while putting DeflectArrow so you can get additional damage reduction (this is the concept on how we designed the current skill)


And what if is Archer/Tank vs Archer/Tank? Simple: the first one that uses UD AND Deflect together is screwed, so should be carefully managed.
Separately? fully manageable (as you can move).


Maybe the toggle could be really the best solution (in fact, before opening the server, i made the toggle version too) but I dont really like the fact that is not "cancellable"...

[lasombra]

Drake since 10 years You do all the time EXACTLY the same mistake.
You listen cryiers too much.

One change/nerf - and You will have next river of tears, couse other class will feel fuked. Later next one, and next one...neverending story.

[stanko]

Didn't really read the whole topic but about deflect arrow, u could make it toggle that has like 5-10 cooldown upon pressing it