Tank "nerfs"

[Peorexo]

Garn (but also everyone in the topic), out of curiosity, what would be your solutions? (beside remove all "nerfs" that is not a solution at all and we would end up again with the OP classes WELL KNOWN to everyone who played DNET IL)

I would like to have constructive comments instead of just complains.

I didnt think of few skills nerfed cuz i really didnt care about that in pvp cuz of buff slots and overbuff (war cry case) but i forgot that this nerfs affect pve as well, i do care now
Imo War cry should remain untouched with patk bonus, but should got -pvp dmg with bow/dagger as compensate (%bonus in overall in pvp should remain the same)

[=drake=]

Since i went out of topic , as always, i am askign why there is this 25% PVP Reduction again, when subclass does not increase your damage with 70% of sub, only few combos have their damage increased, maybe change it into 15% at least?

Can be, we will see.
On 2008 IL we had 40% reduction, we already reduced it to 25% when we opened the server.
We need first to see once everyone reaches lv80 and full equipment before really know if can be reduced more or not.

[Garn.]

Garn (but also everyone in the topic), out of curiosity, what would be your solutions? (beside remove all "nerfs" that is not a solution at all and we would end up again with the OP classes WELL KNOWN to everyone who played DNET IL)

I would like to have constructive comments instead of just complains.

im not saying about removing nerfs, just need to make that char a bit more playable, really, it's pretty much useless right now.
for example reduce the % of nerfs (like, dont know, bow range with deflect 750 range, guard stance -instead of no pdef for robe and light - just lower pdef bonus, UD in robe/light - raise a bit AT LEAST mdef, it's very low bonus right now) this is an example.

since nuker/summoner or fighter/summoner dont have any kind of huge nerf (they actually get a bonus and this is: -Erase: chances of effect changed from 60% to 50% (landing remains 80%). Reuse now is base 60sec instead of 32sec.)

[=drake=]

guard stance -instead of no pdef for robe and light - just lower pdef bonus, UD in robe/light - raise a bit AT LEAST mdef, it's very low bonus right now) this is an example.

But why raise tankiness when not using tank equipment?

I would prefer things that makes tank more "ok" when used as a "tank" and not as a mage or as a light armor user.

The assignment of armors should be quite caracteristic in the game:
Heavy = tanking fighter (can be also tank/buffer or tank/healer)
Light = dps fighter
Robe = caster

To boost tanking skill toward armors that are not tank specific you strip out the tank caracteristic from that armor.

[R0gan]

Garn (but also everyone in the topic), out of curiosity, what would be your solutions? (beside remove all "nerfs" that is not a solution at all and we would end up again with the OP classes WELL KNOWN to everyone who played DNET IL)

I would like to have constructive comments instead of just complains.

I am not complainning about nerfs in any post, i think some nerfs are necessary to avoind unbalance, or OP chars.
Mutants off - perfect, it was a freak unbalance.

deflect arrow...
lets think...

in the beginning of server, mages > all.. cuz noone focus in jewels, always weapon and armors..
i a near future, archer will domain it as the main killers for sure.

bringing down deflect arrow ill make them even dangerous..
lets say, a party with 1 tanker, 3 suports and some DDs... all subbed.
no tank will make tank / tank right?

tank/th,glad,bd,wk,pal,etc in all cases (less pal i think) tank cant use this skill in pvp to defend himself and his PT. imo, will be a big cut in the near future, cuz hardly someone will use this skill.. ok, its about use it in right time, etc etc.. i understand it,... but since in future will be dracos bow +11. 12,, 14...

lets see how hard they will rape everyone..

not  a complain, just my cents

[Clonage]

I feel like im being ignored since no one has said why my opinion is bad at all.

[R0gan]

right now, hallates being killed, tank cant keep the agro.. just on beggining :>

[=drake=]

i a near future, archer will domain it as the main killers for sure.

bringing down deflect arrow ill make them even dangerous..
lets say, a party with 1 tanker, 3 suports and some DDs... all subbed.
no tank will make tank / tank right?

tank/th,glad,bd,wk,pal,etc in all cases (less pal i think) tank cant use this skill in pvp to defend himself and his PT. imo, will be a big cut in the near future, cuz hardly someone will use this skill.. ok, its about use it in right time, etc etc.. i understand it,... but since in future will be dracos bow +11. 12,, 14...
lets see how hard they will rape everyone..

Thats to be seen first.
In the past the best archer was the tank/archer that thanks to this skill could kill all other archers with ease without problems while gaining nearly full advantage (all minus the shield) of the tank.
Right now, staying strictly on fighters, archer is better used with light equipment and best combo (for pure dps as a fighter) is archer/dagger (full sinergy, fully played in light armor, and deadly in both long range and close range)

I feel like im being ignored since no one has said why my opinion is bad at all.

I have issues in putting a limiter of 600 min range as it freaks up with debuffs that reduces your range.

right night, hallates being killed, tank cant keep the agro.. just on beggining :>

- Do the DPSes are using ANTI AGGRO skills or stucked on F1 with stone over it while being afk? Tell them to put that skill on F2 and slide the stone a bit more right to press them both.

- Do there is any aggro control or everyone goes toward pure dps, tank included (both enchants and tattoo, as i guess everyone in that party for sure have at least an enchanted skill and probably is equipping a tattoo)?

- The Dagger classes are using trick/switch to make everything a mess when they should not use them?

- Again, do there is any aggro control or the buffers/healers are just spamming?

[R0gan]

Thats to be seen first.
In the past the best archer was the tank/archer that thanks to this skill could kill all other archers with ease without problems while gaining nearly full advantage (all minus the shield) of the tank.
Right now, staying strictly on fighters, archer is better used with light equipment and best combo (for pure dps as a fighter) is archer/dagger (full sinergy, fully played in light armor, and deadly in both long range and close range)

i understand your point.
maybe you should do something like...
nerf the deflect arrow, instead nerf another skills.

at this way , for gladiator as example (i am dwarf.. so, im not gladiator ok?), if he uses it, 20% less atack speed. no gladiator will use it ever... its too much...

why not something like....

Default:
Deflect Arrow 1   Bow Damage -16%
Deflect Arrow 2   Bow Damage -24%
Deflect Arrow 3   Bow Damage -32%
Deflect Arrow 4   Bow Damage -40%

If you use a fighter sword or blunt (1 handed) + heavy = full Deflect arrow as above.

if char is on robe or light, or even with another weapon that is not a fighter sword or blunt one handed just cut it 1/3, or even 1/4
on high level will be 13,33% of bow defense,,

its a start idea.

what do u think about this?

[=drake=]

For anti-aggro skills you mean skills with lower Power?

All DPS classes (or most of them) have skills that, when casted, reduces the aggro accumulated or removes the target+delete the hate toward the actual target.

The ones that reduce the aggro are the ones to use WHILE the aggro is on the tank.
In case the boss switches target to one of the DPS, some classes have a chance to make the boss lose the target+aggro and in that case JUST the tank should be attacking to recover the hate (use TS or something to sincronize) because most of them reset aggro of everyone down to zero (example: Trick)
The skills that removes aggro+target should NEVER be used while the tank is tanking and keeping aggro as you basically screw him up.

[Clonage]

How about checking Passives?
IF char has Long Shot = apply bow range nerf.
IF char doesnt have Long Shot , do not apply bow range nerf.

[=drake=]

How about checking Passives?
IF char has Long Shot = apply bow range nerf.
IF char doesnt have Long Shot , do not apply bow range nerf.

I would dream that, IL engine is quite limited and cant have so complex radication over a single effect...