About Subclass

[unhandledexeption]

Nope.

Getting horn and sub is easy. It has never been easier. Everyone I know had it in instant. Some donated, some managed to get golky, most simply earned enough cash by spoiling or farming recipes or cata's and then buying it. People that play 2-3 hours a day that play here 1 months are already DNsubbed. In the past on old infi for most it took 1 year to get DNsubbed, and there were ridiculous fights about it, and none complained. Just stop. We have a highrate here already, its called Dragon, with all the shit it comes with it.

This server is not hard. Never ever I had equip and sub and all the stuff so fast as I had it here. None tried to stop me thats the point, no hiunting no pvp for the bosses, there are just too many of them and now with the shortened spawns people still complain? For what?

Golky is not hard to kill. If you cant kill it and just go there to leech it, do not complain. Just don't. If you can kill it, there is a solid chance your party will lasthit anyway.

If it was easy for you that doesn't means that everyone's character have such luck. I'm killing golkies since 2 months(about 100 golkies), but nothing i got. Everybody in my party got it, even for the offsubs, but not me.
That's why i support the horn fragment suggestion. Because who have lucky char, will get the horns fast, but the unlucky chars at least can get something after camping golkies for months...
Actually on infinity it was easier to get horn as:
-it wasn't announced for whole server so about 2-3 parties were there, and not 10-20 parties...
-the market price of horns were much lower than it is here
-you could buy a horn at donny for ~20 coins(however on market it was much cheaper)? Here you can only buy premium horn for the ridicolous 40 eur price.
-on old servers 1 horn was needed for 1 char, as you could only have one dnsub. But here you can have 4, which means more horns are needed, and consumed.
-on old servers there was a quest needed for getting horn. Here no anything needed, so only those people can help, who already have a quest horn, but aren't subbed yet. Else, they have chance to get the horn.

[LadyZENITH]

Dunno what server you come from. But all your points are wrong.  On old infinity C4 times it was like this:

- Nope, no parties there, whole alliances fought for it. There was no way any random would take it ever. Even if you were in the winning alliance chance was really small.
- The marklet price was much higher, about 1,4KKK, pretty much unplayable. It did cost more then S weapons which were very rare back then.
- Dunno how much was horn at donny but none I knew back then donated for it or anything, now a lot of people do. Thats why coins are so cheap.
- Who would DNsub retails? Maybe after year.. maybe. Such a waste, you rather build the main and gather SP for ally the skills. Im, 80 and 40% and I still dont have enough SP for all skills.
- Nope, there was 1 horn for the party that killed it. Thats it. Most of the people took about year to DNsub. Even I had to wait like 2 months for it. So... yeah. You come from different universe, or from the trash lolipop server Dragon.

[Chicks]

Nope.

Getting horn and sub is easy. It has never been easier. Everyone I know had it in instant. Some donated, some managed to get golky, most simply earned enough cash by spoiling or farming recipes or cata's and then buying it. People that play 2-3 hours a day that play here 1 months are already DNsubbed. In the past on old infi for most it took 1 year to get DNsubbed, and there were ridiculous fights about it, and none complained. Just stop. We have a highrate here already, its called Dragon, with all the shit it comes with it.

This server is not hard. Never ever I had equip and sub and all the stuff so fast as I had it here. None tried to stop me thats the point, no hiunting no pvp for the bosses, there are just too many of them and now with the shortened spawns people still complain? For what?

Golky is not hard to kill. If you cant kill it and just go there to leech it, do not complain. Just don't. If you can kill it, there is a solid chance your party will lasthit anyway.

Noone wants a leecher that does not improve the chances of getting the horn.

Also, people cried day and night on Dragon, way more than here. But only when the big rush came while the golky was monopolized by 1-2 clans/ally. That was around the time a summoner (ES) could solo RB with merrow, when we could summon kariks and when LOA was the place to go for xp and pvp. When Nightmare set was donation only and Maj was from L2 Letters droped from RB. If I recall, DCoins didnt even exist back then. In that time, the population was russian and americain/West EU mainly. People where in tear... Why the freak do you think they made more golkis? They made secondary golkis (Initially, only TOI existed, AFAIK) because there was a massive amount of people coming in (polish invasion) who cried they couldn't get it.

The point is, you may not remember that time, but there was a time where people cryed a LOT more about horns. It's actually normal considering this is a starting server. Currently, some classes are just not ment to be subbed on their own. Tanks are the first that comes to mind. Noone need tanks as they bring nothing with destroyers current dps/substain vs a golky. If we want to encourage diversity of classes, having different ways to get the horn, including one that is mainly non combat related (or defensive related?) could REALLY help a lot for some classes (BP, Tanks, PP, to name a few). It also helps people without clan who don't have much time to play. When you have 2h per day, you better hope it spawn when you're there and that you get there before it dies, otherwise you're fracked hard. Best way is to make summoners and place them as teleporting wards. Thing is, you need to level those chars... Aka something a dude with 2h per day can't necessarily do.

A game is supposed to be fun, but right now, fact is that some classes are just completely not fun to play because nothing makes it fun or even doable for them.

EDIT : about time needed to get horn : Personally, I had a good clan who shared their drops. If you made enough pvp/rb with them, they shared the drop in order to get what everyone needed. But it is true, the time needed to get a horn was WAY worst. About the price, it's important to understand that coins came ingame when adenas where already on the market (on dragon). Most people had many chars just to keep the 2kkk max adenas amount. When the new servers opened (infinity and NM), People expected the same price as from dragon. This is the main reason why coins where so dreadfully expensive for the newer servers I think. While it was harder back then, there where also more people so it didn't really matter if it was long and some people left for it. Here, it's afk shop server, where most of the population is not even ingame most of the time. We can't let people leaving for horn.

[remeron]

Dunno what server you come from. But all your points are wrong.  On old infinity C4 times it was like this:

- Nope, no parties there, whole alliances fought for it. There was no way any random would take it ever. Even if you were in the winning alliance chance was really small.
- The marklet price was much higher, about 1,4KKK, pretty much unplayable. It did cost more then S weapons which were very rare back then.
- Dunno how much was horn at donny but none I knew back then donated for it or anything, now a lot of people do. Thats why coins are so cheap.
- Who would DNsub retails? Maybe after year.. maybe. Such a waste, you rather build the main and gather SP for ally the skills. Im, 80 and 40% and I still dont have enough SP for all skills.
- Nope, there was 1 horn for the party that killed it. Thats it. Most of the people took about year to DNsub. Even I had to wait like 2 months for it. So... yeah. You come from different universe, or from the trash lolipop server Dragon.

again, u didn't need to trouble  yourself explaining how it was back then, we know as well, ok we get it u are an old player....besides, earlier c4 and late c3 (when I started) was easy to get subbed..

things are different now, noone would wait a year (or couple months for that matter) to sub anymore, its been said many times, ppl play for the nostalgia of it. If they want an easier sub option, can u blame em? you are not the one to grant that anyway..

[Csenky]

again, u didn't need to trouble  yourself explaining how it was back then, we know as well, ok we get it u are an old player....besides, earlier c4 and late c3 (when I started) was easy to get subbed..

things are different now, noone would wait a year (or couple months for that matter) to sub anymore, its been said many times, ppl play for the nostalgia of it. If they want an easier sub option, can u blame em? you are not the one to grant that anyway..

I don't understand, define 'nostalgia' please.
For me, nostalgia doesn't only mean the times when I had S gear, +9 DB and 4 boss joolz. My nostalgia includes the times when I went to FoD for farm vampires, I spent there 2 hours and I ended up with -10% due to constant pvp. When I was there on ~12 Baium until I finally got in and could stab him. When it took 3 days to finish 700mobs in WoA, because everyone fought for the spots. When we couldn't farm ketra quest for 30 minutes without running into enemies. And so on... *edit: and the horn, which was farmed by the big clans, and it was like 2kkk on Shadow. GL with that one. No quest golkies that time.
This is my nostalgia, not just the pewpew in fullgear. That will come too, but if I want it in an instance, I'll go highrate. But getting everything for free totally destroys the flavour of the game. So again, if you want nostalgia, take it with all it's drawbacks, if you want pewpew, go highrate.

You still have zero points in this argument, except that "we want it easier, period.". Wtf man, this attitude is the only reason why the server isn't nostalgic enough.

[unhandledexeption]

- Dunno how much was horn at donny but none I knew back then donated for it or anything, now a lot of people do. Thats why coins are so cheap.

Bullshit. I never donated anything, but you don't need to donate to see the prices at donny...
Then how could i farmed 100 coins while donating nothing? How the half server got DNET sets, and dnet icarus weapons? Here on tarantula the coins are cheap because of the price of the crystals and premium horns at donny, (the only valuable items at donny) are extreme high so you need to earn a lot of coins to buy something. On old servers, you could buy an ant queen at donny for ~15 coins, a horn for 20 and a baium for 30. Here? for 20 coins you can buy a crappy level 13 crystal. That's why the coin is so cheap in adena. BTW on infinity the coins were around 50kk, then after the adena exploit the prices explode.

-Who would DNsub retails? Maybe after year.. maybe. Such a waste, you rather build the main and gather SP for ally the skills. Im, 80 and 40% and I still dont have enough SP for all skills.

Nearly everyone... No need to learn useless skills/don't use premium horn, then you would have enough SP.

- Nope, there was 1 horn for the party that killed it. Thats it. Most of the people took about year to DNsub. Even I had to wait like 2 months for it. So... yeah. You come from different universe, or from the trash lolipop server Dragon.

First times yes there was one golky PLUS horn at donny for 20 coins (which is cheaper than the market price today at tarantula), then there were more golkies (TOI, Woa, Anghel waterfall, and somewhere around heine).
I joined to infinity at late C4, and i had 4 subbed chars(2 mains, 1 dualbox buffer+ a bot farmer char), because it was easy to sub, and the horn was cheap.

That that was long time ago, i could play more back then, just like others, and there were more new things in game. Now the most of the players know the game.

[remeron]

I don't understand, define 'nostalgia' please.
For me, nostalgia doesn't only mean the times when I had S gear, +9 DB and 4 boss joolz. My nostalgia includes the times when I went to FoD for farm vampires, I spent there 2 hours and I ended up with -10% due to constant pvp. When I was there on ~12 Baium until I finally got in and could stab him. When it took 3 days to finish 700mobs in WoA, because everyone fought for the spots. When we couldn't farm ketra quest for 30 minutes without running into enemies. And so on... *edit: and the horn, which was farmed by the big clans, and it was like 2kkk on Shadow. GL with that one. No quest golkies that time.
This is my nostalgia, not just the pewpew in fullgear. That will come too, but if I want it in an instance, I'll go highrate. But getting everything for free totally destroys the flavour of the game. So again, if you want nostalgia, take it with all it's drawbacks, if you want pewpew, go highrate.

You still have zero points in this argument, except that "we want it easier, period.". Wtf man, this attitude is the only reason why the server isn't nostalgic enough.

I think u can understand, u just dont wanna understand...you keep saying "u have zero point", you just don't see the points..you dont wanna see the points..you are good with words, twisting words and all..you damn well know there is no other highrate version of this server, and telling me to go highrate...thats just outrageous...

Let me tell you this much,

you can never step into same river twice, its not the same water anymore...

Therefore, Nostalgia doesn't mean going through all difficulties again, It can not inherently be that way...

You can only get a glimpse of what you enjoyed in the past.


EDIT: thought I was quoting the other guy, had to delete some..

[Chicks]

I don't understand, define 'nostalgia' please.
For me, nostalgia doesn't only mean the times when I had S gear, +9 DB and 4 boss joolz. My nostalgia includes the times when I went to FoD for farm vampires, I spent there 2 hours and I ended up with -10% due to constant pvp. When I was there on ~12 Baium until I finally got in and could stab him. When it took 3 days to finish 700mobs in WoA, because everyone fought for the spots. When we couldn't farm ketra quest for 30 minutes without running into enemies. And so on... *edit: and the horn, which was farmed by the big clans, and it was like 2kkk on Shadow. GL with that one. No quest golkies that time.
This is my nostalgia, not just the pewpew in fullgear. That will come too, but if I want it in an instance, I'll go highrate. But getting everything for free totally destroys the flavour of the game. So again, if you want nostalgia, take it with all it's drawbacks, if you want pewpew, go highrate.

You still have zero points in this argument, except that "we want it easier, period.". Wtf man, this attitude is the only reason why the server isn't nostalgic enough.

The server isn't nostalgic because we have allowed multibox and not enough players are actually playing.

I don't see why theres so much fighting against a super long and super boring quest. It removes nothing. Those who make the quest most likely can't afford the horn ingame anyway and are most likely only able to donate to get the horn otherwise (the other ways are just too unlikely to bother with).

[Stormix88]

Please dont compare what is now and what was 5 years ago, we are older.

i spent less time on L2 then on the months eirlier, many thing made me that way, for example the sub

[Stormix88]

Those who make the quest most likely can't afford the horn ingame anyway .... (the other ways are just too unlikely to bother with).

so they shouldnt play on this server ?

[Stormix88]

Chick is see, you got a problem with accepting other point of view...

sry for spam

[Csenky]

Let me tell you this much,

you can never step into same river twice, its not the same water anymore...

Therefore, Nostalgia doesn't mean going through all difficulties again, It can not inherently be that way...

You can only get a glimpse of what you enjoyed in the past.


EDIT: thought I was quoting the other guy, had to delete some..

I'm not retarded, of course it's not the same, those servers didn't even start in IL. So it is different from the base. But facing difficulties in-game is a core feature of L2, this is why you lose exp (which is ridiculously reduced above 78 btw), this is why recipes are 60%, this is why this enchant system is in the game, this is why are there specific classes for making money etc etc...
I totally see your point, which is still: "Make the progress easier."
And you totally don't see what I'm talking about: L2 was never meant to be easy. There are plenty of games with easy gameplay/progress, even the current L2 official is one of them, and I miss this feature from them. How the player's patience and 'making money-skills' are tested. You gotta farm hard. You have no time? Be smart. Use the market on your advantage, buy cheap, sell overpriced. Finally, get what you need. There is even offline shop option, which makes you money while you work or whatever.